Mike, Remember how many people were afraid to go into the ocean after seeing "Jaws"? I think the shower scene in "Psycho" had the potential to be a pretty powerful stimulus.
Beth Benoit Plymouth State University Plymouth, New Hampshire On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 5:08 PM, Mike Palij <[email protected]> wrote: > I readily admit that I know little about "vicarious classical conditioning" > but would like to raise the following points: > > (1) Not to berate Jeffry Ricker, but outside of anecdotes has anyone > ever shown that watching the shower scene from Psycho in fact produces > shower phobias, especially in people without pre-existing anxiety, fear, > or phobia (or psychotic) tendencies? I'd just like to know there is actual > data on this and the results have been replicable. > > (2) It should be fairly obvious to everyone, I think, that the situation > described below is a case of observational learning and, depending > upon how radical a behaviorist one, neither operant conditioning or > classical conditioning can explain any subsequent responses a person > or animal might make because (a) the observer makes no response > that can be involved in conditioning (I understand that the observer > may have a fear response or anxiety response but it is unlikely to be > as strong if they were in the actual situation; talking from experience, > there is a big difference in watching someone point a gun at someone > else and having them point it at you) and (b) there is the implicit > assumption > that a mental representation of cs-us-ur set of relationships is created > and > activates the equivalent neural mechanisms in the observer (assuming > the us-ur relationship is a reflex). I think we are way beyond conditioning > at this point. > > (3) From a couple of the references I've read on the internet, it seems > best to describe this type of observation learning as an instance of > associative learning that transcends either operant or classical > conditioning, > that is if one still want to maintain a conditioning account in contrast > to a more general cognitive process. I think we are beyond even > second-order classical conditioning > > (4) Can someone explain in conditioning terms how one trial learning > occurs with the shower scene? I understand how one trial learning > can occur in the Garcia taste aversion conditioning studies but I am at > a loss to understand what mechanism would cause a phobic response > to taking showers from watching the scene in "Psycho". > > Again, I readily admit to being unfamiliar with this phenomenon, so I > may be completely off in my comments above. Nonetheless, it seems > that the usual conditioning paradigms do not readily account for this > (especially if one is a Skinnerian; I think it is even beyond the > informational > approach described by Rescorla) > > -Mike Palij > New York University > [email protected] > > > --------- Original Message ----------- > > On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:16:29 -0800, Paul Brandon wrote: > The best answer is probably yes. > As usual, both operant and classical conditioning functions are involved. > I'm not sure how a phobia differs from an avoidance response maintained by > a > conditioned or unconditioned stimulus. > The main question would be the function of the mother's fear response to > the > child. > Does a mother's fear stimulate fear in a child without any prior > conditioning > history? > If so, than it is an unconditioned stimulus, and the child's fear is an > unconditioned response to it. > The phobic stimulus (talking about a shower or a snake, or a snake in the > shower for that matter) then becomes a conditioned stimulus, and avoiding > it a > negatively reinforced operant response. > The details of the mother/child relationship are the prior conditioning > history > that makes the mother's response an effective stimulus for the child's > behavior. > > > On Feb 8, 2014, at 12:34 PM, Jeffry Ricker, Ph.D. wrote: > > Hi all, >> >> When I was a child, I remember my mother telling me about a friend of hers >> who developed a "shower phobia" after watching Hitchcock's Psycho. (By >> today's standards, the scene is quite tame, but it was terrifying to many >> people at the time the movie was released.) It seems obvious that the >> woman's >> shower phobia developed through vicarious conditioning. >> >> A "textbook example" of vicarious conditioning I have often seen is the >> development of an animal phobia (usually a snake or cockroach) in a child >> after seeing his/her mother express extreme fear upon coming into contact >> with that animal. I wonder, however, if classical conditioning is the >> better >> way of describing the situation. That is, the mother's expression of >> terror >> represents a UCS for the child because of the strong emotional bond >> between >> them. It is not simply the degree of "empathy" the child feels for another >> that leads to the conditioning of the fear response: the expression of >> fear >> in a parent might be seen as a more direct indication of danger because of >> the parent-child relationship. >> >> I hope I'm communicating this in a way that makes sense. If so, what are >> your >> thoughts on this: is it better conceptualized as vicarious or classical >> conditioning? >> > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. > To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13105. > b9b37cdd198e940b73969ea6ba7aaf72&n=T&l=tips&o=34051 > or send a blank email to leave-34051-13105.b9b37cdd198e940b73969ea6ba7aaf > [email protected] > --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. 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