I needed a guard (sister) at the bathroom door for close to 6 months after seeing Psycho!
Joan [email protected] > Mike, > Remember how many people were afraid to go into the ocean after seeing > "Jaws"? I think the shower scene in "Psycho" had the potential to be a > pretty powerful stimulus. > > Beth Benoit > Plymouth State University > Plymouth, New Hampshire > > > On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 5:08 PM, Mike Palij <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I readily admit that I know little about "vicarious classical >> conditioning" >> but would like to raise the following points: >> >> (1) Not to berate Jeffry Ricker, but outside of anecdotes has anyone >> ever shown that watching the shower scene from Psycho in fact produces >> shower phobias, especially in people without pre-existing anxiety, fear, >> or phobia (or psychotic) tendencies? I'd just like to know there is >> actual >> data on this and the results have been replicable. >> >> (2) It should be fairly obvious to everyone, I think, that the situation >> described below is a case of observational learning and, depending >> upon how radical a behaviorist one, neither operant conditioning or >> classical conditioning can explain any subsequent responses a person >> or animal might make because (a) the observer makes no response >> that can be involved in conditioning (I understand that the observer >> may have a fear response or anxiety response but it is unlikely to be >> as strong if they were in the actual situation; talking from experience, >> there is a big difference in watching someone point a gun at someone >> else and having them point it at you) and (b) there is the implicit >> assumption >> that a mental representation of cs-us-ur set of relationships is created >> and >> activates the equivalent neural mechanisms in the observer (assuming >> the us-ur relationship is a reflex). I think we are way beyond >> conditioning >> at this point. >> >> (3) From a couple of the references I've read on the internet, it seems >> best to describe this type of observation learning as an instance of >> associative learning that transcends either operant or classical >> conditioning, >> that is if one still want to maintain a conditioning account in contrast >> to a more general cognitive process. I think we are beyond even >> second-order classical conditioning >> >> (4) Can someone explain in conditioning terms how one trial learning >> occurs with the shower scene? I understand how one trial learning >> can occur in the Garcia taste aversion conditioning studies but I am at >> a loss to understand what mechanism would cause a phobic response >> to taking showers from watching the scene in "Psycho". >> >> Again, I readily admit to being unfamiliar with this phenomenon, so I >> may be completely off in my comments above. Nonetheless, it seems >> that the usual conditioning paradigms do not readily account for this >> (especially if one is a Skinnerian; I think it is even beyond the >> informational >> approach described by Rescorla) >> >> -Mike Palij >> New York University >> [email protected] >> >> >> --------- Original Message ----------- >> >> On Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:16:29 -0800, Paul Brandon wrote: >> The best answer is probably yes. >> As usual, both operant and classical conditioning functions are >> involved. >> I'm not sure how a phobia differs from an avoidance response maintained >> by >> a >> conditioned or unconditioned stimulus. >> The main question would be the function of the mother's fear response to >> the >> child. >> Does a mother's fear stimulate fear in a child without any prior >> conditioning >> history? >> If so, than it is an unconditioned stimulus, and the child's fear is an >> unconditioned response to it. >> The phobic stimulus (talking about a shower or a snake, or a snake in >> the >> shower for that matter) then becomes a conditioned stimulus, and >> avoiding >> it a >> negatively reinforced operant response. >> The details of the mother/child relationship are the prior conditioning >> history >> that makes the mother's response an effective stimulus for the child's >> behavior. >> >> >> On Feb 8, 2014, at 12:34 PM, Jeffry Ricker, Ph.D. wrote: >> >> Hi all, >>> >>> When I was a child, I remember my mother telling me about a friend of >>> hers >>> who developed a "shower phobia" after watching Hitchcock's Psycho. (By >>> today's standards, the scene is quite tame, but it was terrifying to >>> many >>> people at the time the movie was released.) It seems obvious that the >>> woman's >>> shower phobia developed through vicarious conditioning. >>> >>> A "textbook example" of vicarious conditioning I have often seen is the >>> development of an animal phobia (usually a snake or cockroach) in a >>> child >>> after seeing his/her mother express extreme fear upon coming into >>> contact >>> with that animal. I wonder, however, if classical conditioning is the >>> better >>> way of describing the situation. That is, the mother's expression of >>> terror >>> represents a UCS for the child because of the strong emotional bond >>> between >>> them. It is not simply the degree of "empathy" the child feels for >>> another >>> that leads to the conditioning of the fear response: the expression of >>> fear >>> in a parent might be seen as a more direct indication of danger because >>> of >>> the parent-child relationship. >>> >>> I hope I'm communicating this in a way that makes sense. If so, what >>> are >>> your >>> thoughts on this: is it better conceptualized as vicarious or classical >>> conditioning? >>> >> >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13105. >> b9b37cdd198e940b73969ea6ba7aaf72&n=T&l=tips&o=34051 >> or send a blank email to >> leave-34051-13105.b9b37cdd198e940b73969ea6ba7aaf >> [email protected] >> > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=49240.d374d0c18780e492c3d2e63f91752d0d&n=T&l=tips&o=34054 > or send a blank email to > leave-34054-49240.d374d0c18780e492c3d2e63f91752...@fsulist.frostburg.edu --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. 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