Yes, many avoidance behaviors move from negative reinforcement (removing the 
finger from the plate when the shock occurs which is followed by no pain) to 
avoidance (removing the finger before the shock occurs). There have been many 
behavioral theoretical attempts to explain how this absence of a stimulus can 
act as a reinforcer for the avoidance behavior without resorting to a cognitive 
explanation (like an expectation).

Rick

Rick Froman
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>

From: Michael Scoles [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 3:31 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [tips] Pavlovian "Operant" Conditioning?

It removed a consequence that wasn't there?

I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today.
I wish, I wish he'd go away.


On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 2:48 PM, Rick Froman 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Yes, I don't think it would be technically accurate to say that Pavlov and his 
colleagues were confusing Operant and Classical Conditioning, given that the 
two had not yet been distinguished at that point. You might say they were 
generalizing types of conditioning that had not yet been discriminated. From 
our more enlightened vantage point :) we can now see the difference but they 
didn't refer to it as Pavlovian or Classical Conditioning because there was 
just "conditioning" [probably incorrectly translated from Russian] which, as 
they noted on one of the cards in the film, that conditioned and unconditioned 
reflexes were "the basis of behavior not only in animals but also in man". So 
there were only conditioned and unconditioned reflexes. It was only later when 
Instrumental/Operant conditioning was identified that a distinction was made 
between "Instrumental/Operant" and "Classical/Pavlovian" conditioning.

In another example, Bekhterev originally saw avoidance learning (specifically, 
removing your finger from a shock plate when a signal occurred that predicted 
shock) as a type of association reflex (he wouldn't have called it Pavlovian 
conditioning since he didn't care much for Pavlov or his methods) but later, 
the phenomenon of avoidance was identified as a type of operant conditioning 
since the behavior operates on the environment to modify the consequences 
(removing your finger from the shock pad after hearing the signal meant that 
the person didn't experience the shock).

Rick

Dr. Rick Froman
Professor of Psychology
Box 3519
John Brown University
2000 W. University Siloam Springs, AR  72761
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
(479) 524-7295<tel:%28479%29%20524-7295>

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffry Ricker, Ph.D. 
[mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>]
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 2:00 PM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: Re: [tips] Pavlovian "Operant" Conditioning?


On Oct 21, 2015, at 10:29 AM, Michael Scoles 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

> What would happen if the child did not open his mouth?  The problem seems 
> similar to distinguishing between voluntary and involuntary (conditioned) 
> eyeblinks in humans.

Yes, I agree. I had to get to class, so I couldn't include some other thoughts 
I had at the time.

But the distinction seems to involve more than just that between "classical" 
and operant conditioning. And the boy would have to know what a cookie was and 
that he had to open his mouth to eat the cookie before he could ever be 
reinforced for opening his mouth.

One other thing: the term "reinforcement" was used in the film. It would have 
had to be translated into English from the original Russian subtitles, which 
makes me wonder if the term could have been translated in different ways.

Jeff

--
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Jeffry Ricker, Ph.D.
Professor of Psychology
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Social/Behavioral Sciences
Scottsdale Community College
9000 E. Chaparral Road
Scottsdale, AZ 85256-2626
Office: SB-123
Fax: (480) 423-6298<tel:%28480%29%20423-6298>
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--
Michael T. Scoles, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Psychology & Counseling
University of Central Arkansas
Conway, AR 72035
501-450-5418

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