Mike— I assume that -you- have read Wheaton’s statement; I’m less sure about other readers. Certainly there is a theological argument for the statement that everyone worships the same god (I read a children’s book to that effect sixty+ years ago). However, the many fundamentalist sects of Christianity manage to make a big deal of minor theological differences. And while the three ‘Abrahamic’ religions share the Old Testament, they use different translations; sometimes significantly (I’m thinking of the Christian version of Isaiah used to predict the coming of Christ).
And wandering off into theology, I sometimes thing that Islam is the only pure monotheism. Judaism states clearly that you shall worship no one but the Lord — the Torah is less clear about the existence of other gods. As for Christianity, 1 = 3 and the whole panoply of demigods (saints)….. On Dec 19, 2015, at 8:18 AM, Mike Palij <[email protected]> wrote: > On Fri, 18 Dec 2015 13:47:28 -0600, Paul Brandon wrote: >> If you read the Wheaton College statement of faith that >> you’ve linked to, > > Paul, of course I read the statement of faith -- do you think > I post links to sites that I don't examine and understand? > >> you would see that the god that Wheaton College worships >> is the Trinity (they are very explicit in their Statement of Faith), > > Perhaps you are unaware that Catholics hold the same belief, > the most obvious proponent being Pope Francis, thus the > significance of Prof. Larycia Hawkins mention of the Pope's > statement "we worship the same God". Indeed, the > concept of "Abrahamic Religious Tradition" is that Judaism, > Christinaity, and Islam use the same sources (e.g., all three > use the Jewish Torah or Old Testament as one of their > foundational texts and last I checked that source's construct > of God is that it a unitary entity -- are you saying that Christians > of Wheaton reject the old Testament becase it doesn't subscibe > to the pothytheistic construct of a Trinity existing as a Unity?) > all three religious traditions make different interpretations of > those texts and the only question, I think, that remains is whether > the interpetations are tolerant and ecumenical (i.e., " we are > all more similar than we are different") or intolerant and divise > (i.e., "we KNOW THE TRUTH and if you don't believe as we > do you are an apostate and heretic"; for a little more on this point, > see: > https://imspeakingtruth.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/apostasy-vs-heresy/ ). > > Of course, the move from the unitary monotheism of Judaism to the > polytheistic unity of Christianity is something that both Judaism and > Islam reject yet the concept of God (the Father) remains the same in all > three. The problems of having a polytheistic monotheism is presented > best in Clint Eastwood's movie "Million Dollar Baby" where he needles > his parish preist with questions about whether there is one God or > three. For those who haven't see this movie or forget the scene, here > a clip on The YouTube: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCoRyXUnTTU > I don't know how the folks at Wheaton interpret this concept -- remember > that language is a slippery thing and what is expressed is not understood > in the way that speaker intended -- but since they are a derivative religion > from Catholicism (part of the Protestant range of religions that range from > snaker handlers to Mormons and everything in between) I think both > Prof. Hawkins and Pope Francis got it right: Abrahamic religions do > worship the same God, they just interpret the construct differently. > For more on this point, I suggest looking at the followig: > > Volf, Miroslav. Do we worship the same God?: Jews, Christians, and > Muslims in dialogue. Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing, 2012. > > Especially the chapter by Peter Ochs "Do We Worship the Same God?", > part of which is availabe on Google books; see: > https://books.google.com/books?id=aX9NQ5JaANQC&pg=PA153&dq=Kammuna,+Ibn+%281971%29.+Examination+of+the+Three+Faiths.+Berkeley+and+Los+Angeles:+Moshe+Perlmann.+pp.+148%E2%80%9349.&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjH5OmCg-jJAhVLLyYKHa0RBrMQ6AEIHTAA#v=onepage&q=%22do%20we%20worship%20the%20same%20God%3F%22&f=false > > Ultimately, it comes down to what one believes or WANTS TO BELIEVE. > Religion is not an empirical enterprise subject to empirical verification > and falsification -- the choice to be inclusive or exclusive is a human > and social issue though, and may not be based on actualy religious > doctrine but on ordinary human biases (e.g., anit-papistry). If Wheaton > chooses to believe it is "SPECIAL" and the God it believes in is not > anyone else's God, well, I guess they are entitled to that belief though > it make it harder to defend against alternatives like relgiions based > on science fiction stories and space aliens who can use the same argument. > If Wheaton want to claim that the God of Islam is not the same God as > the Jews or other Christians, they can do so. But is it also marks them > as being divisive in contrast to inclusive -- which may be exactly what > they want if they feel only they have the one true faith. > > Personally, I think they're anti-papists. ;-) > >> a concept absent in Islam. I can see why a fundamentalist organization >> such as Wheaton would hold that Islam does not worship the same god >> as they do, and that by equating the god of Islam with the God of Wheaton, >> Dr. Hawkins was violating the terms of her contract. > > Since Jesus Christ never wrote down his beliefs or directions on how > to interpret his teachings and the writing of the Gospels of the New Testament > took place some 30-60 years after his death -- the selections of which > writings would become "canonical" and make it into the New Testament > and which would be banned (e.g., the Gospel of Judas), what God is in > the Christian tradition is open to interpretation though "true believers" > may feel that their interpetation is THE correct one. Bart Ehrman is good > at making this point in his book "Misquoting Jesus"; see: > http://www.amazon.com/Misquoting-Jesus-Bart-D-Ehrman-ebook/dp/B000SEGJF8/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1450533001&sr=1-1&keywords=misquoting+jesus > > If the "God of Wheaton" doesn't like the Muslims or want to be indentified > with them, I guess that is their choice. But after 12 years of Catholic > school, 5 years of teaching at Yeshiva University, and having had Muslim > students (from modern/cultural to devout), I've come to position that it's > probably better to be inclusive than exclusive. But we really, really need > to be careful about using religious beliefs as a shield to advocate bigotry > and a weapon of oppression. > > Oh, and Happy Holidays! ;-) > > -Mike Palij > New York University > [email protected] > > P.S. Note to Christians: if you follow the Gregorian calendar, Christmas > is December 25. If you follow the Julian (old) calendar, it's January 7 > unless you are an Orthodox Armenian Christian in which case Christmas > is observed on January 6. I don't know when the "God of Wheaton" > commands his followers to celebrate Christmas (remember that not all > Christians have celebrated Christmas; the Puritans actually outlawed > it in Massachusetts in their early days there -- if the New Testament is > correct, Jesus was probably born at some other time like the spring > but early on Christians didn't concentrate on Christmas, it became > important after it was realized that the end times weren't coming as > soon as people thought). > > As for myself, I'll celebrate the winter solstice and not because I'm > pagan (I'm not) but because the days grow longer after the date. > However, if you believe that God is part of all life, all nature, and all > reality, then one could do much worse than celebrate the winter solstice. > > >> On Dec 16, 2015, at 10:08 PM, Mike Palij <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On Wed, 16 Dec 2015 16:44:20 -0800, Paul Brandon wrote:> >>>> In this case, the college is religious; effectively a branch of a church, >>>> and the contract requires adherence to the church's religious principles. >>>> She signed her contract knowing this. >>> >>> I understand this but you're implying that the religious sect running >>> the college really doesn't believe that there is only one God in >>> the Abrahamic religious tradition. The "Statement of Faith" that >>> Wheaton uses does not explicitly state this -- see: >>> http://www.wheaton.edu/About-Wheaton/Statement-of-Faith-and-Educational-Purpose >>> >>> So, how does her comment violate this statement. Quoting from >>> the NY Time article, >>> >>> |"I stand in religious solidarity with Muslims because they, >>> | like me, a Christian, are people of the book," she wrote, >>> |in part. "And as Pope Francis stated last week, we worship >>> |the same God." >>> >>> Or was it her mention of Pope Francis that got her into trouble? >>> Are the folks running the college anti-papist? See the Wikipedia >>> entry >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anti-Papist&redirect=no >>> which will probably redirect to this entry: >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anti-Catholicism&redirect=no >>> >>> -Mike Palij >>> New York University >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 16, 2015, at 3:04 PM, Mike Palij wrote: >>>> Can a tenured faculty member be fired for being a heretic? We'll >>>> see but for now see the following: >>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/17/us/wheaton-college-professor-larycia-hawkins-muslim-scarf.html?_r=0 >>>> >>>> No wonder Trump is so popular. >>>> >>>> Do evangelicals not consider Islam one of the Abrahamic religions? >>>> See: >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_religions >> Paul Brandon Emeritus Professor of Psychology Minnesota State University, Mankato [email protected] --- You are currently subscribed to tips as: [email protected]. To unsubscribe click here: http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df5d5&n=T&l=tips&o=47633 or send a blank email to leave-47633-13090.68da6e6e5325aa33287ff385b70df...@fsulist.frostburg.edu
