Remy Maucherat wrote:
I think very few people are actually using mod_proxy instead of mod_jk. You've got to back your assertion with some kind of numbers, otherwise it's FUD.
As do you. The assertion was based on comments on this mailing list, but we've already established that there is a need for the ajp protocol, lets move on.
I disagree with your statements. Performance is first, as long as useability isn't too bad.
Then we must agree to disagree. In my experience, if something isn't usable, it doesn't get used, so any potential performance advantage is purely theoretical. Lack of usability is one of the biggest failures in many open source projects, and I don't want to see httpd fall into that trap.
Peace on ASF :)
mod_jk is used on many productions sites. From my experience, admins who use jk are people who are experienced with Tomcat and as such trust jk and get habbits with its configuration. Admins using mod_proxy to link Apache to Tomcat are those who are more confortable with HTTPD standard modules.
Up to Coyote, Tomcat HTTP stack was very slow and jk was mandatory for speed and stability. Now we have the choice even if jk is still faster
than mod_proxy and proxy_http, but I'm sure than when proxy_http will be using HTTP connections pool the difference will be minimal.
And I'm sure than Graham and others will boost mod_proxy+proxy_http :)
To give an example, a mod_jk 1.2.x fully rewritten with APR, compiled with Apache, and with better configuration would clearly be useable enough (I think mod_jk 1.2 was actually good enough on many Unix platforms).
It would be different to the established configuration method for backend servers, thus causing comments like "why does ajp work differently to the rest of the server", and "why is the load balancing feature of ajp not available server wide?".
well mod_ajp will probably goes a bit farther than mod_proxy + proxy_ajp since mod_proxy will allways relay static configuration, ie map some knowns URL to knowns Tomcat.
The next step is to be able to update URI Mapping and Tomcat defs in real, to avoid a restart of a production server.
I know real productions case where the HTTPD server COULDN'T and SHOULDN'T be restarted and when you add another Tomcat to the cluster, for example to help support an increase of load. mod_ajp will help these admins to have a configurable non-stop cluster 'controller'.
But for those without this requirement mod_proxy + proxy_ajp will be a perfect combination.
I'm sure Mladen, Henri and Bill will look thoroughly at mod_proxy, and will try their best to use it, but you really need to relax your position from "-1 for your code if it doesn't use mod_proxy". You need to add "unless we find good reasons why it wouldn't work for us".
httpd exists for the use of end users, not for the private use of just the people you listed. If somebody is going to the effort of creating a module specifically for httpd v2.0, then I don't see why they wouldn't go to the effort of making it fit into the established framework properly.
Tomcat also exist for the use of end users. All ASF products are made for users, not for hackers purposes. Read my statement about dynamic configuration and you'll see it's something needed for admins.
Part of my pay job is managing Apache HTTPD and Tomcat servers and the dynamic update is really something needed, because I don't want to see one day commercial products installed since Apache HTTPD and Tomcats couldn't sastify this need.
Yes, as many here I'd want to use ASF products, for real productions situations, I'm not a hacker.
I think _you_ need to do some research into mod_proxy, how it is designed and exactly how it works before making statements about it's performance. By testing the mod_proxy_http module, and then making statements about mod_proxy (a totally different module) shows that you don't know how the proxy framework works.
We understand that mod_proxy is a kind of server in HTTPD, I also track new-httpd list and remember the mod_proxy genese, the pros and cons even
in HTTPD commiters.
Mladen, Graham, Bill, Henri, Remy, we're all ASF commiters and as such we should works together to make ASF products better.
The only way is to learn from each others since there is also great commiters in jakarta.
BTW, Mladen, who known very well Apache 2.0 allready send some comments, fixes and patches for mod_proxy and proxy_http.
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