On Mon, 29 Dec 2014 07:58:37 +0000 Robert Thompson <[email protected]> wrote:
> Once upon a time, the serial issue would have kept me using screen. > But, these days I use picoterm as the minimal pty<-->serial > connector, and that works as well with tmux as screen's own serial > handling worked with screen. It also works well without any > multiplexer, just letting your (virtual) terminal handle whatever > escape codes are coming, so my smaller utility images only have to > include the tiny picocom binary rather than the much bigger screen > (or tmux+picocom) binary. > > Picoterm itself is unfortunately GPL, but it's also pretty simple; > basically just abstracts the serial-pty and the console-pty stuff and > plugs them together with a limited set of command keys for exit, > baud-up/down, etc, and for launching rzsz-style file-transfer > programs. > > For people who use serial devices on a regular basis, this is very > useful. I am *very* carefully resisting the urge to ask that it be in > toybox, at least until after everything already on the list is done :) > > If boxes has a picocom toy, I'll be very happy... if not, I'll > eventually make the time to try to contribute one. Since > terminal-side and serial-side are pretty much a matter of doing the > same thing for different reasons, it might not even significantly > change the size of the binary... I have no plans to add a picocom / picoterm toy, or anything similar. I don't know what Rob's thoughts on that are. I have no objection to it, could be useful for embedded development. > On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 3:50 AM, David Seikel <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > On Mon, 29 Dec 2014 03:12:03 +0000 (UTC) Jason Spiro > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Rob Landley <rob@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > I plan to implement vi over the next year, but it's one of the > > > > four realy big commands required by posix (sed, awk, sh, vi) > > > > and I've been debugging sed against real-world data for _weeks_ > > > > now. [...] > > > > > > > > There are some others (the kernel build requires bc now, if I'm > > > > doing "less" and "vi" I should be able to do "screen", and > > > > "rsync" is really useful...) but right now I'm focused on the > > > > list for 1.0, and there are a lot of smaller commands (and the > > > > giant backlog of pending cleanups) that could get knocked off > > > > the list faster... > > > > > > In this message, I will tell you why I think toybox should emulate > > > tmux instead of GNU Screen. > > > > Well, if I can go ahead with my plans for boxes for toybox, which > > will eventually include a screen / tmux type system, then no one > > has to convince me to make it more like tmux than screen. I fully > > agree with you, tmux is much better, it's what I use. I've > > configured tmux to be friendly to screen users in the past, and > > convinced one of my clients to switch to it. Actually, he > > convinced himself with the phrase "ooooh, you can resize the window > > panes with your mouse". Mind you, he was resizing MY window panes > > from another computer at the time, which annoyed me watching from > > the other side of the city. lol > > > > > Let me begin. > > > > > > GNU Screen, a "terminal multiplexer", is very useful. Still, I've > > > since switched to tmux. It's a newer terminal multiplexer, and is > > > BSD-licensed. It is true that GNU Screen has now started making > > > releases again for the first time in half a decade. Still, I like > > > tmux so much that I don't plan to switch back to Screen. > > > > From my point of view tmux seems to be better designed. > > > > > tmux makes certain operations easier.[1] For example: It ships > > > with preconfigured keybindings (<C-b> 0, <C-b> 1, ..., <C-b> 9) > > > which let you jump to low-numbered windows in just a few > > > keystrokes. Another example: To renumber a window, you need > > > only hit five keys (<C-b> . 9 <RET>), instead of nine (<C-a> : n > > > u <TAB> 9 <RET>). > > > > > > tmux is also easier to learn. For example: It shows a status > > > line (tab bar) by default, instead of forcing users to mess with > > > complex configuration options just to get a status line. See > > > screenshot[2]. > > > > > > tmux is included in the software repositories of Ubuntu, Debian > > > "stable", and other distros. > > > > > > tmux's basic keybindings are fairly similar to Screen's. But, > > > instead of Ctrl+A, tmux's default prefix is Ctrl+B. (This is > > > reconfigurable.) > > > > I do generally configure the hot key and a few others for screen > > compatibility. So that if I ever have to use screen, then I know > > what to do, and others used to screen can still use my tmux > > installs. > > > > Tmux is also built for scripting, which is hard for screen. I have > > a script that, for instance, connects to a tmux session, switches > > through particular windows in that session, issuing commands to > > each window, to automate some backups, running from a cron job. > > The other sysadmin for that server had originally used screen, coz > > she didn't know about tmux, and completely failed to get screen to > > be able to do anything like that. > > > > > You can find a tmux reference card[3] on the Web. > > > > > > Dear Rob: I know you mention Screen in your todo.txt file[4]. > > > But please consider instead mentioning tmux. Those who are > > > familiar only with good old Screen can either adapt to the nicer > > > user interface that tmux provides, or can download and install > > > Screen themselves. > > > > > > In the end, I'll likely do what I did for the boxes based editors, > > make it generic, and allow people to build their own variations > > easily. So screen and tmux users will both be happy. After all, > > the boxes based editors already support all the editors / pagers on > > the toybox roadmap (except sed), and a couple more. > > > > -- > > A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants > > coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Toybox mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.landley.net/listinfo.cgi/toybox-landley.net > > > > -- A big old stinking pile of genius that no one wants coz there are too many silver coated monkeys in the world.
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