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Interesting comments : )
I've used dianetics , cchs , arc sw, op pro by dup and many others.
TROM and RI is to Scientology like Scientology is to a pre frontal
labotomy and electro shock therapy in comparison . Until one does
level five , they will not have a clue of the power of the process.
I spent some of my day looking at body and others bodys from outside
of my body . Just for shits and giggles . I can run level five while
ouside my body as well
The gains continue to get progressively better more powerfully
incredible . Time breaking raw posulates is a process LRH never had .
Have a nice day : )
On Aug 3, 2010, at 5:09 AM, macro scope <[email protected]> wrote:
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Pete
sorry for the delay.
I sort of had the idea some where that you were very familiar with
scientology tech - the question about what is meant by "idscharge"
caught me out.
I thought we were talking an understood language. Your involvement
in Scio was not a lot then?
I think you will find readily enough the meaning of Discharge,
destimulation and restimulation on the net and in LRH books which I
would be surprised
if you didnt have somewhere at least in pdf form. I wont there for
get into redefining it all here.
I am familiar with TBing having done this TROMing some years ago and
still use it in daily life "on the run". I think it is terrific solo
technique for building
cause level on the case. I imagine that this tool alone would in the
hands of a self disciplined user achieve the mind "stillness" that
Tolle refers to in
his Power of Now book. It would actually be something worth while
to bring to his attention as the book itself doesnt provide a lot of
means to achieve it
except to "just do it"
I reiterate though that I do not consider this a "discharge "
technique but more a "Destimulating" technique. What you describe as
time breaking an
incident to the point of no longer bothering you is in LRH
terminology "keying out" the incident. Nothing wrong with this and
will achieve great case results
but it does not mean it will never come back.
My thoughts on this are based on having audited a great many people
at all different case levels and as such I feel I have a good
understanding on what
is a destimulating result and what is a discharge result. You may
however have different mileage on which you base your understanding
It is interesting to note as I said before that where destimulation
or discharge is not occuring then there is only restimulation
happening. This will cause one
of two things. One the person gets no satisfaction from what they
are doing and will even become irritated or down tone on it. Two the
person becomes
increasing more bizarre in their wins such as communicating with
spirits on higher plains or discovering and understanding aspects of
the spiritual universe
only the gods know about.
The first type is probably not TBing correctly or has not taken each
incident to full keyout.
The second type needs CCHs but they would never agree to do it.
Just my observations
Mac
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [TROM1] The Emperor has no clothes
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 08:58:00 -0700
Hi Mac
For me the Ghost Danse articles summarized the observations of
Buddha, Levenson, Stephens, Hubbard and others and made it clear to
me that they were all describing the same spiritual situation and
therapy. This was new material and most helpful to me.
I particularly liked his work to develop with examples the extended
tone scale from Filberts Excalibur Revisited. This tone scale
includes Hubbard’s +40 to –40 tone scale and then extends it to
+400 native state and –400 spiritual death. I got from this a much
better understanding of how the tone scale described the fall from n
ative state that we all experienced, how the tone levels work togeth
er to drive action when we are at cause and make us effect when we f
ail to be at cause.
I agree with you and Ouran states he is a theory researcher not an
auditor. He does not present and method of application. But I
found the improvement in my understanding of the spiritual universe
was most helpful in my auditing.
I have not read Tolle’s material. The exercise you describe as
“Stillness of Mind” sounds a lot like Lester Levenson’s
meditation by holding a point of view of simply being, joyfully. Har
mless to everyone and not needing to do or have anything. This work
s very well for me to see what present time problems I am compulsive
ly obsessing over and need to audit.
I get the ideas of gaining control of what the mind throws at me
from Dennis by restimulating an emotionally charged incident and
then destimulating it to take over the automaticity of the mind.
I get the idea of releasing from Dwoskins Sedona Method. “Pick up a
pencil and hold it tightly in your hand. Now turn your hand face u
p and open it so the pencil just lays there. Now turn you hand over
so the pencil falls to the floor. This is releasing” you can relea
se any of you emotional charged attitudes if you want to.
I get that in Scientology for session rudiments and for the grade
levels the auditor gets improvement for the PC by indicating to the
pc where he has charge. In rudiments with the meter not floating
the auditor asks if there is an arc break and tells the pc if there
is one. If necessary the auditor continues by asking if it is a
break in affinity, reality, communication or understanding and tells
the pc which read by saying it was a break in reality, for
instance. This indication of where the charge is allows the pc to
let go of the incident and upset.
Dennis uses time breaking to carry the above a step further. I find
the postulate counter postulate incident and compare the incident or
portions of the incident to the present time. I continue the process
until all interest on my part in the incident fades to zero and I am
no longer bothered by the incident.
What do you mean by discharge. Can you describe how it is different
from the above?
-----Original Message-----
From: macro scope [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 4:38 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [TROM1] The Emperor has no clothes
Hi Pete
I agree that the Ghost Danse articles are full of little interesting
tit bits. I did one time a few years back try and read them all but
somewhere in the attempt of that "blew".
Probably I think it was the structure of the material, it just seem
to be endless spiritual musings about the mind that ultimately didn’
t lead anywhere. You can almost read any part in any sequence and ge
taway with it, I think the author from memory even suggests that thi
s can be done.
As there seem to be no end target I some where or other just
stopped. Perhaps I should finish the action begun.
It worries me though that if the author really had something to say
he would have said it in a way that communicated and built up to a
point and a final understanding that can be applied. It though didn’
t seem to get beyond lots of musings based largely on the works of H
ubbard. This is not to say though they were not interesting musings.
There is actually a simple way to see what is the state of your
compulsive game playing. It is to attempt "stillness of the mind" as
described in Tolles book the Power of Now. You will very quickly see
the command value that the minds compulsiveness has over you. I
certainly did anyway. How well you can achieve what Tolle describes
will be the index of how much processing you need.
If you can grasp the concept of "Stillness of Mind" or even better
actually do it ("do it" is probably a bad choice of phrase as your
not actually doing anything) then that is what I consider to be
Nirvana.
On the subject of TROMing one is actually doing processing of a
unique form, Dennis’s form. With any processing though you are doing
one of two possible things. Removing charge completely on a particu
lar subject (discharging) or getting the charge to back off so that
its not in your face anymore (destimulating). TROM in my oppinion is
a destimulating action and not a discharging action. I think it doe
s this destimulating very well or what Hubbard called "keying out".
In running a process though there is more than just these two
possibilities of destimulating or discharging. The other thing that
can happen is restimulation. That is charge can get stirred up on
the track and be even more in your face than it was before. So in
processing then you have three possibilities - Restimulation,
destimulation or Discharging. In any processing one of these three
is going to occure.
This means then that if for one reason or another you do not
destimulate or discharge what you are running then the end result of
your processing will be that you have restimulated yourself. You
will actually be doing more harm than good.
Restimulation can make you feel angry irritable and generally upset
and you will often hit out at wrong targets in trying to vent this
pent up charge.
(Ref: 6308c28 The Tone Arm and The Service Facsimile)
This is why I believe people doing TROM should be encouraged at
least in the early stages of TROM to use some sort of meter. The
meter will tell the person whether or not what they are running is
charged and if it is charged how long they need to run that item to
destimulate it. According to LRH (and also my own observations) if
in your solo processing you are getting what equates to less than
six divisions of TA per session then you are restimulating more than
you are destimulating and can expect sooner or later to feel pretty
irritated with what you are doing. The meter then is an early
warning device that tells you something is wrong and that you need
to change something.
Without the meter though the first thing you know is that you feel
really pissed and ready to clobber some one. Restimulation is an
unpleasant business if permitted to get out of hand.
I wonder a bit if this might be Davids situation?
Mac
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 11:41:17 -0700
Subject: Re: [TROM1] The Emperor has no clothes
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Hi Mac You make many good points in your answer to David. I would
like to ad that Ouran in his Ghost Danse articles observed that as
he tried to look at level 100 of the tone chart which is knowingness
and creation he found that the mind is wonderfully creative and will
instantly conjure up any "reality" the being wants to see. It was
therefore very hard to pin down what this area of the tone scale
actually was. Ouran also makes the observation that viewing the area
at the tone scale called native state is not possible from points
below knowingness on the tone scale. A being who is compulsively
involved in creating games cannot get a good reality on native state
or nirvana which would be just being joyfully without any need to do
or have anything. My own experience early on in the Catholic idea of
heaven "where I was expected after death to go sit around admiring
what a fine fellow God is" sounded awfully boring to me. Likewise
trying to understand TROM where it says to find a postulate conflict
and timebreak the charge from it. I at first found it difficult to
recognize what the postulate conflicts were. After all, being
continually obsessing over my problems with lovers, money, taxes,
government rules etc. is "normal" isn't it. It took reading the
Ghost Danse articles and Levenson' s Keys to Ultimate Freedom and
postulating that I was in a state of "Nirvana" or just being
joyfully, harmless to everyone while doing and needing nothing that
I began to recognize my compulsive game playing. It is all fun and
interesting. Keep on TROMing Pete
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