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Slim,
Hm, you manage to write a message where just about every paragraph is some kind of know-best invalidation. Sounds pretty miserable, and I have no interest in playing that game with you. - Flemming 2010/11/27 Slim <[email protected]> > So far what I've read is that a repetitive route command process is awkward > and is imported from Scientology and not suited for solo processing. Hmm ok > . > > Creative processes are limited according to Hubbard and you. > > Time breaking is another issue somehow, but no explanations to back it up. > > On the other hand , you're using level 4 which incorporates all of the > above as well as RI. > > RI . Who are these people who use RI for hours and hours every day. I've > also never read anything in the games manual where RI is the solution to > about anything one runs into. > > I've rarely used RI more then 10 minutes at a time. Levels 1-4 are > preliminary to running level five which is the main part of TROM. > > Ive used all the processes and am well into level five . Its all Dennis > says it is and much more than i ever imagined. > > How can anyone follow anyone else with any kind of process like these not > somewhat blind. All Dennis asks is that one holds it as a possibility. > > I know I've never held Dennis as some kind of geru . He has years of > experience with auditing and plenty of credibility . More so than some who > pop in on the list and slings mud about TROM. > > Just because Dennis has never " done it " for you , doesn't say much on > its own . What has done it for you ? Nothing else either, i suspect. > > You're painting a picture that is pretty much down on all the main points > of TROM , yet you're using level four. > > > > > > On Nov 26, 2010, at 6:19 AM, Flemming Funch <[email protected]> wrote: > > > ************* > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > ************ > > Hi Guys, > > > > I don't think I've said anything on this list for years. In part because > I paid little attention to TROM. But I still listened with half an ear. > > > > Recently I decided to give TROM another try myself. In part because > people frequently send me questions that I don't have good answers to. In > part because several of my session clients do TROM in their own time. But of > course also because it is a good thing. I'm currently doing level 4. > > > > Some of you guys have clearly spent more time than I have in studying all > TROM materials in great detail, and will probably be much better than I at > explaining what exactly Dennis said. > > > > However, I right away run into issues with what Dennis said, and what > some people are doing, versus what I think is the right thing to do. > > > > For example, I realized, somewhat to my horror, that some people will > spend hours and hours every day doing RI. And what they actually do and call > "RI" is something I consider a very bad idea. However, the problem is that > they do it with exactly the commands Dennis gave, and Dennis said very > emphatically that one can do any amount of it, and it is the solution to > just about anything one runs into on TROM. Which I think is grossly > misleading. And based on his instructions, people might do all sorts of > different things and call it RI, and think they're doing a good thing. > > > > I should warn you first that I have little inclination to blindly follow > the literal advice of some Authority who's supposed to be smarter than me. I > ran that out many years ago. So, just word clearing what exactly Dennis said > doesn't quite do it for me. Sure, it is very good to understand, and he has > some brilliant insights that should be thoroughly understood. And maybe some > blind spots that also should be understood. > > > > So, if your goal is to do TROM exactly and correctly as written in the > materials, you should maybe not listen to me. > > > > Hubbard found, quite correctly, that creative processes are limited > processes. If you keep just creating pictures of stuff, sooner or later > you'll start making some stuff more solid, namely the reasons "why not", the > case on the subject. Or, if we look at it a TROM way, if you keep mindlessly > creating pictures, you're likely to start creating the opposites, and you'll > start dramatizing the overwhelms and the goals and games that would be dealt > with on Level 4 and 5. > > > > Yes, creating is ultimately what life is about, and there's no limit to > that. But that's the overall target. If what you're creating is pictures, > most of which are supplied by some kind of file clerk mechanism, there are > plenty of limits to that. > > > > What is not limited is your actual life in present time. That's what you > need to get back to, and that, I claim, is the point of RI. Being back in > present time, doing and thinking and feeling what you want to, what is > important to you. So, after having been thrown off track by strange feelings > and pictures from the past, and having resolved them, one fills the empty > space with what one wants one's life to be. One remembers, or enhances, what > one is doing. You don't do that by making random pictures for 3 hours. On > the contrary. You more likely do it by getting in touch with your present > environment, imagining some nice energy around you, and getting back to an > exciting project one is working on. Back out of the mind, back into one's > life. That shouldn't take more than a few minutes. > > > > A repetitive rote command is an awkward thing to use there. "Commands" > are imports from Scientology, and aren't very suited to running solo. What > you do solo is cycles of action. What's important is the cycle you're > carrying out, not how it is worded. Giving oneself commands opens up all > sorts of stuff that isn't all good. > > > > I do have things to say about time-breaking too, but I think I've thrown > enough wrenches into the machinery for one day. > > > > - Flemming > > _______________________________________________ > > Trom mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > _______________________________________________ > Trom mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >
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