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Dear Colleen
Thank you for your kind words. I also scoured the web for data on Trommers. There was a lady I believe who went through Level 5 with an auditor and a meter. I have one but I don't use it for TROM. To answer your question: No I did not have any problems putting up the postulates. I find the design of the chart beautiful in the way it seamlessly flows from one level eg 2A to 2B and since I am using it at level 5 I guess it makes level 5 beautiful too except when I work with postulates that deal with my being or having been the originator of an overwhelm...and have to timebreak that while feeling the corresponding shame and guilt :) And Dennis said it took him a long time to get that chart just right. I know that TO KNOW is the big daddy based on Dennis' work. Others people consider fine are TO HAVE, TO BE, TO CREATE, TO FEEL, TO EXPERIENCE and there is ample scope to work with some of this if necessary based on the additional material he released but I am not there yet. Just plodding along with Level 5 day by day. Some days I don't because of live or livingness or being outruds but never longer than a few days then I am back on the bicycle again. Timebreaking the days events or particular events that have hijacked my attention and moving through the chart. I have had to read the manual possibly 5 or more times over the years and some sections more than that to grok the content. Something finally just clicked concerning the chart itself. I comprehended the chart. I knew what it was intended to do. And I decided to stop thinking about TROM as Dennis suggests and to just DO Trom. Someone posted some additional notes about TROM which really helped. Some additional instructions Dennis gave about how to do Level 5. That just plain worked for me. Here it is: TROM LEVEL 5 PROCEDURE [The best way to follow this is when you have the postulate failure cycle chart in front of you.] I will go through the chart, as if I'm the subject and I'm running Level 5. And Im starting at Level 1A. I'm starting at Level 1A and my goal-package I'm using is the basic to know-goal package. I'm starting now at Level 1A. Before I start as given in the manual I'd time-break all the day's activities and also I would make sure that Levels 1, 2, 3 and 4 have been run to no more change. I wouldn't attempt Level 5 until those first 4 levels have been run to no more change and also I've time-broken the day's activities. OK, here we go. Level 1A. The first thing we need is a little bit of space around us. Now, it doesn't matter which space you use, you can use the space of the present time universe around you or you can use the space of any past moment in time. It doesn't matter. You're not limited in any form whatsoever. You just need some space in which to work. So it doesn't have to be present time physical universe space it can be past physical universe time space. You just need some space there to work. So, we are at Level 1A and the first thing you would do is put up the postulate, the Other's postulate "must be known". The postulate is "must be known" and that is in the class of not-self. Now, it doesn't matter where you put the postulate. Most people would prefer to put the postulate into a mass. But there is no reason why you should put it into a mass, you can put it into empty space if you want. But most people find it easier to put the postulate into a mass. Even a created mass of your own choice or into a wall, a part of the physical universe, a fence, a passing car. It doesn't matter where you put it. The important thing is that it's a "must be known" postulate and it's in the class of not-self. That is important. You must be certain that it's in the other's, the class of other's to which I will refer for more precision as the class of not-self. So you put up that postulate "must be known" in the class of not-self. You yourself then create the postulate "must know". That postulate is in the class of self, that's you, right where you are. You hold the postulate "must know". So you've got "must be known" over that way as origin. Receipt where you are, you with the postulate "must know". And if you go over the column I gave on the chart you see that the level here is "forced to know". And it's you being forced to know. Get that? Doesn't matter what it is, you don't have to specify as we are just working with the postulates. So you would put up "must be known" over that way in the class of not-self, and then get yourself there. Don't see yourself over that way doing this. You get yourself right where you are, right where you are with the "must know" postulate. There's a little danger there that you could say, Oh well, get me over that way. Oh no, that's wrong. You get right where you are - with the "must know" postulate, you understand that? Because you are right where you are creating a "must know" postulate. Then you simply time-break out anything that shows up, any sensations that show up, your whole situations of cameo, as a scenario, as a scene, and you time-break out anything that happens. Anything that shows up, you time-break it. Time-break it out until it's gone away and then you put the postulates back up again. You put the postulates back up and more scenes show up from the past, you time-break those back out, have a good look at them; time-break them out of existence and put the postulates back up again. And you keep on doing this until you can put the postulates up at level 1A with no more change occurring and you can quite happily put up the postulate "must be known" in the class of not self over that way while you're sitting there with "must know". And you got the idea that you're being forced to know. That's quite OK. Nothing is happening and it's all quitened down. Right, now you're ready to move on. You started to get bored with that level. You've done all you can with that level, it's now time to move on. So we now move from Level 1A to level 1B. Now that is signified by you changing your postulate from "must know" to "mustn't know". You're still at receipt point, but you're changing your postulate from "must know" to "mustn't know". The postulate "must be known" is still out there in the class of not-self. But now it's a game. We now have a games condition. We now have the opposition. We now have an opposition situation. We have "must be known" in the class of not-self and "mustn't know" in the class of self and they are opposing postulates and that is a games situation. So, you just now hold that. Just hold that situation and time-break out everything that shows up. Everything that shows up there. And you continue with it until there's no more change. You've time-broken out everything you quite happily have that situation there where you have "must be known" over there in the class of not-self and "mustn't know" in the class of self and you can hold that situation. And there's nothing else, it's all quitened down. There's nothing else happening. And you're getting bored with it, so it's time to move on. So you now move on from 1B to 2A. Now this involves a definite change, you're going from origin now to receipt. That's a bigger change that happens there between 1B and 2A. When we go from 1B to 2A you start of by still feeling yourself at receipt point. You start of by saying, Well, I'm in "mustn't know", I'm in "mustn't know" but now I'm starting to originate. You start to originate in "mustn't know" and drive your postulate "mustn't know" across to the other person, to the "must be known" there. In other words, instead of him being the originator and you being at the receipt, at level 2A you're the originator of "mustn't know" and you drive him into the receipt of "must be known". In other words, you're beginning to get at him. So, you're beginning to get at the opponent. So it's you with "mustn't know" and him still holding his postulate of "must be known", but instead of him being at the origin point he's now at the receipt point. But it's still a game. Then again you would do all the necessary time-breaking, the handling of all that shows up, clean everything up until you're quite bored with that Level, the whole level 2A. Then you would go to level 2B where now you are going to actually overwhelm the opponent. You still stay in your "mustn't know" postulate, you're originating your "mustn't know" postulate at level 2b and now you drive him, you actually force him, you drive him by the sheer power of the postulate, you drive him from "must be known" into "mustn't be known". In other words, you make him comply with your postulate. So he's driven from "must be known" he felt at level 2A, he now goes to "mustn't be known" at level 2b. And Level 2B is you yourself with "mustn't know" at the origin and the opponent with "mustn't be known" at receipt point there. So now we've gone through a whole little cycle, haven't we. We've gone through a whole little cycle. We had the complementary postulates at level 1a with "must be known" and "must know". We've gone through two game cycles and now we've come back to complementary postulates again. But notice that the postulates have changed. We are now at 2B. I pause here because of my bad eyesight. I'm struggling to read this off the chart with my bad eyesight. At 2B we have "mustn't know" - "mustn't be know" and we are back with complementary postulates again. But now you are at the origin point and the "mustn't be known" is at the receipt point. But again we've achieved complementary postulates. And the level here now, it's not a game level, this is the overt of preventing from being known - "mustn't know". Now I really don't have to go any further, because that is a complete little cycle I ran doing 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B. This is a complete little cycle, these four. In fact, it's a quarter of the whole set. And if you can follow that quarter, then the other quarters, the rest of the postulate failure cycle chart, this three more quarters, they all follow the same pattern as that first quarter. So if you follow what I've just given you, you got it. Basically the difficulty is a lack of understanding that you're dealing purely with postulates. You're not dealing with effects here on the chart, you're dealing with postulates. That's all your putting up, it's postulates. You're not putting up effects, you're not putting up sensations, or you're not creating people, you're not mocking up people, you're not mocking up walls, or floors, or situations. You're simply mocking up postulates. What we're working with are just postulates. That's the whole level of level 5, it's postulates. That's all we are working with at level 5, it's postulates. We don't work with anything else, we time-break out anything else that shows up. We only work with postulates at level 5. It's an incredible thing to work with. At first it seems very strange and so forth, very odd and peculiar to be just working with postulates. But after one get's used to it, when you get into Level 5 you get to a point eventually where you wouldn't dream of working with anything else but postulates because you get the fastest results working with postulates and you always work with just postulates. You simply time-break out everything else that shows up. Any incidents that show up, or sensations, or emotions or whatever will show up. You simply time-break them out. So at level 5 you're working purely with postulates. Once you grasp that, you got it. You got it. You can work then on level 5 and realize what you're doing. > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Reply to Llewellin (The Resolution of Mind list) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 29 Feb 2016 03:42:33 -0500 > From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: [TROM1] Reply to Llewellin > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hello, Llewellin, Colleen here. > > I think you may be the first person on this list who wrote even this much > about their Level Five experiences, and what you wrote makes perfect sense > to me. Did you have any problem in the beginning putting up postulates the > way Dennis says, and that produced change for you? > > Do you find Level Five to be "beautiful". I'm asking because Dennis saw it > as a thing of beauty... an intriguing viewpoint. > > When I first found TROM I scoured the Trom list archives for clues and some > real life examples because I was not very able at duplicating the simple > instructions and was unsure. It was a bit frustrating in the beginning, so > I would like other upcoming Trommers to have more concrete examples in case > they too don't quite "get it", or are unsure. > > Thank you for sharing your wins, and the reminder to continue to live some > life. > > colleen > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/20160229/601a1ea8/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TROM mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > > End of TROM Digest, Vol 136, Issue 21 > ************************************* >
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