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Robin,

1. Were my inserts underlined when you received my post?

Because I did underline them and   they are not underlined when returned to
me.

It looks like they get lost in transit.





2. Yes,  I have more to say on your point, than I can explain in an email,
and more than I have time for.

It would take a book to explain in full detail.


But poet and philosopher Edwin Markham said it very succinctly in his words:

In vain we build a world, if at first we don't build the man.




Also Edwin Markhams'  poem:


Man-making
by Edwin Markham <http://poetrynook.com/poet/edwin-markham>

We are all blind until we see
—That in the human plan
Nothing is worth the making if
—It does not make the man.

Why build these cities glorious
—If man unbuilded goes?
In vain we build the work, unless
—The builder also grows.

We are all blind until we see
That in the human plan
Nothing is worth the making if
It does not make the man.

Why build these cities glorious
If man unbuilded goes?
In vain we build the work, unless
The builder also grows.



I expand on that:

In vain we build a world, if at first we don't build the individual with a
noble character (ethics and morals).

In vain we build a world if people don't learn the difference between a
belief and a fact.


In vain we build a world if we don't find the cause and cure for the
problems of the mind.






People fail in any endeavor for only one reason and that is for the lack of
the right knowledge to solve the problem at hand.

If you have the right knowledge, you can solve any problem.


Therefore gain the right knowledge, wisdom and understanding, and they
shall be as a crown of glory for you by day and a guiding light by night.




I remember when I was a child and experiencing all this insanity and abuse.

I was less than 5 yrs old.


I remember thinking to myself; there is something wrong here.

This does not make sense.



That is what I mean by

It has native intelligence:   The ability to evaluate data and solve
problems for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics..

It is good.

It knows the difference between right and wrong.

It is curious.

It is ambitious.

It has a very strong affinity for love and emotional nourishment.


It is part of a dual "being". Male-female.

An individual is not complete unless it has a relationship with the
opposite sex.


It is aware of it's spirituality.

Because a new being has these traits is the reason  he has psychotic  bread
downs.

The overwhelm of the force to be made wrong, being forced to accept  false
and limiting data, being forced to agree to false and limiting data,

being told that right is wrong and wrong is right,  will cause the neurons
in the brain to short circuit and cross  purpose  (get the wires crossed).


And that is how you get a crippled mind  and a mental cripple.




Another way to fuck up children is the modern way of bringing up children,
that is bring them up in front of the TV,  or let the TV be their baby
sitter.


Children  who spend their time in front of the TV  grow up, having shit for
brains.

Especially if uncontrolled.


This can be modified somewhat by diligent and intelligent parental control.

We now have three or four generations of children  who have increasingly
been brought up in front of the TV.

Each generation is worse (has more shit for brains and more mental
disorders) than the previous one.


A good book to read to get some outside insight in to this subject is the
Oahspe book, available on line in pdf.

The Oahspe  book is a great book to complete your cycle of learning, as
Hubbard strongly recommended.

It is one of the best books of knowledge on almost all things on earth.


It is one of those books which after you read it, you will never be the
same, you will never see the world the same again.

Actually it is a must read.



Here is another book with some very good important knowledge:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=yUTIuGGsvxYC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false


Read especially: How children are born either bright  or stupid.



David














On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:18 AM, The Resolution of Mind list <
trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote:

> *************
> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
> ************
> Hi David,
>
> thank you for that balanced and insightful comment - I agree.
> Your supplements to the quote I think are very valid.
>
> I was reminded of a little joke I once heard:
>
> Someone watching a group of children - engaged in cheerful play -
> smilingly ponders: "Look at all those wonderful little children,
> they're so bright and full of beauty!"
> After a short while, his face turning stern, he says: "I wonder
> where all those stupid and ugly grown ups are coming from?"
>
> A citation I once came across is this here:
>
> The adult is the last state of decline (or dilapidation) of the child.
>
> Hubbard said that any organization is at its highest level of ethic
> (highest survival potential) at the moment when it is founded.
> Then it declines. (A sad irony, the man knew it, but could not manage
> to reinvent the church in time.)
>
> An organism like Homo sapiens can be viewed as organization.
>
> The question that remains is:
> All adults - insane, stupid and mean as they may be - once have been
> children as well. And what about us. We are not children any more I
> assume.
>
> What is your viewpoint in that regard?
>
> Robin
>
> ------
>
>
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 21:47:26 +0200, <trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org> wrote:
>
> Send TROM mailing list submissions to
>>         trom@lists.newciv.org
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Reading DIANETICS Again - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 143,
>>       Issue 21) (The Resolution of Mind list)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2016 08:59:41 -0400
>> From: The Resolution of Mind  list <trom@lists.newciv.org>
>> To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org>
>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Reading DIANETICS Again - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol
>>         143, Issue 21)
>> Message-ID: <mailman.7678.1473968846.1326.t...@lists.newciv.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I have also read Dianetics 55 recently.
>>
>> I have read all the scn books, and have read many more than twice.
>>
>> But there is so much knowledge in them, that most people could read them a
>> dozen times and still not understand  everything, and still got more out
>> of
>> it by reading it again.
>>
>>
>> At the same time, not everything Hubbard wrote is correct.
>>
>>
>> The nature of such subjects is that it takes a lot of time and effort and
>> mental processing of data to  be able to clearly see right through the
>> subject.
>>
>> A lot of re-evaluating has to be done.
>>
>> Thinking men have been thinking about the problems of the mind and how to
>> resolve them since the dawn of consciousness.
>>
>> And Hubbard said that his work is based on 50,000  yrs of thinking men.
>>
>>
>> Hubbard did phenomenal work and made more advancements in this field than
>> anyone else, so far.
>>
>>
>> It is impossible to do all  in one life time.
>>
>> My point is that it will take more lifetimes of thinking men to perfect it
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> This excerpt that you post Robin,is good but I can see some shortcomings
>> in
>> it.
>>
>> One thing I have realized that a new being  comes with certain native
>> traits.
>>
>> It has native intelligence:   The ability to evaluate data and solve
>> problems for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics..
>>
>> It is good.
>>
>> It knows the difference between right and wrong.
>>
>> It is curious.
>>
>> It is ambitious.
>>
>> It has a very strong affinity for love and emotional nourishment.
>>
>>
>> It is part of a dual "being". Male-female.
>>
>> An individual is not complete unless it has a relationship with the
>> opposite sex.
>>
>>
>> It is aware of it's spirituality.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> These traits and abilities are either enhanced or aberrated by parents or
>> guardians and other adults in it's environment.
>>
>> Maybe more often aberrated than enhanced.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the following quote, the first thing I would go further on is what I
>> inserted and underlined.
>>
>> If I had time, I would rewrite most of it  to go deeper with some
>> expansion
>> and get more accurate.
>>
>> Because it contains some inaccuracies and ambiguities  and incompleteness.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The communication formula was derived from an observation of
>> and working with life. It could be derived only because one had entirely
>> abandoned the idea that energy could tell anyone anything. Life is not
>> energy. Energy is the by-product of Life.
>> [Where else have we heard that? I give a hint: Substitute Life with
>> Games and Energy with Mass. - Robin]
>> Your recluse is one who has become so thoroughly convinced that
>> there are no obtainable answers from anyone that he does no longer
>> believe that Life *(sanity and understanding)*  itself exists. He is the
>> only living thing alive, in his
>> opinion. Why? Because he is the only thing which communicates. I dare
>> say every recluse, every ?only one,? every obsessively or compulsively
>> communicating individual has so thoroughly associated with ?life units?
>> which were so dead that it became ?very plain? that no one else was
>> alive *(sane)* . The attitude of a child towards the adult contains the
>> opinion that
>> adults have very little Life* (sanity)*  in them. A child, with his
>> enthusiasms, is in
>> his family everywhere surrounded by communication blocks
>> (*surrounded by insanity, and ignorance and stupidity)*  of greater
>> or lesser magnitude. His questions do not get answers. (he gets punished
>> and abused) The
>> communications which are addressed to him are not posed in a way
>> which can be duplicated
>> * (the communications are insane and computations are wrong, the child
>> instinctively knows that, that is why he rebels). *
>>
>>
>>
>> *(A child will never do anything bad, or have a bad attitude, or throw a
>> tantrum  if the parent did not do something wrong to the child first. The
>> child is rebelling, because the parent violated his knowingness or innate
>> better judgement. *
>>
>> *There is no such thing as a bad child, there are only bad parents.  All
>> of
>> our basic core problems are caused by failed parenting.*
>>
>> In other words, the adult does not make
>> himself duplicatable. Freud and his confreres were entirely in error in
>> believing that the child is totally self-centered. It is not the child who
>> is
>> totally self-centered. He believes that he is in communication with the
>> total world. Investigation of children demonstrates that they are very
>> heavy on the First, Second, Third and Fourth Dynamics. The child is so
>> convinced of his ability to communicate that he will touch a hot stove.
>> Life has no terrors for him. He has not yet learned by experience that
>> he cannot communicate. It?s the adult who is drawn back into the ?only
>> one? and one believes that the inspiration of this continuous belief on
>> the part of a psychologist and psychoanalyst that the child is entirely
>> self-centered and living in his own world must be the expression of an
>> opinion held by the psychoanalyst and psychologist out of his own
>> bank. As one grows one goes less and less into communication with
>> the environment until he is at last entirely out of it. Only he is out of
>> it
>> in the wrong direction ? dead.
>> Where you see aberration, where you would wish to detect
>> aberration, you must look for violations in the communication formula.
>> People who consistently and continually violate portions of the
>> communication formula can be suspected of being just that dead. The
>> further one departs from the communication formula the more death
>> exists for them. The more concentrated they become on secrets, the
>> more they question intentions, the less they are likely to assume the
>> point of view called Cause or the point of view called Effect. ....
>> <end of quote>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 1:10 AM, The Resolution of Mind list <
>> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote:
>>
>> *************
>>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>>> ************
>>>
>>> Indeed, a good idea to take a look at Dianetics once again.
>>> I've done just that recently with "Dianetics 55!".
>>>
>>> It contains very useful data for TROMers. E.g. the whole
>>> chapter about "Communication Lag" which once and for all should
>>> clean out any doubts about flattening a process.
>>>
>>> Following I insert an excerpt from "DIANETICS 55!" on child-parent
>>> relationships which might be of particular interest for you David.
>>>
>>> <quote>
>>> .... The communication formula was derived from an observation of
>>> and working with life. It could be derived only because one had entirely
>>> abandoned the idea that energy could tell anyone anything. Life is not
>>> energy. Energy is the by-product of Life.
>>> [Where else have we heard that? I give a hint: Substitute Life with
>>> Games and Energy with Mass. - Robin]
>>> Your recluse is one who has become so thoroughly convinced that
>>> there are no obtainable answers from anyone that he does no longer
>>> believe that Life itself exists. He is the only living thing alive, in
>>> his
>>> opinion. Why? Because he is the only thing which communicates. I dare
>>> say every recluse, every ?only one,? every obsessively or compulsively
>>> communicating individual has so thoroughly associated with ?life units?
>>> which were so dead that it became ?very plain? that no one else was
>>> alive. The attitude of a child towards the adult contains the opinion
>>> that
>>> adults have very little Life in them. A child, with his enthusiasms, is
>>> in
>>> his family everywhere surrounded by communication blocks of greater
>>> or lesser magnitude. His questions do not get answers. The
>>> communications which are addressed to him are not posed in a way
>>> which can be duplicated. In other words, the adult does not make
>>> himself duplicatable. Freud and his confreres were entirely in error in
>>> believing that the child is totally self-centered. It is not the child
>>> who
>>> is
>>> totally self-centered. He believes that he is in communication with the
>>> total world. Investigation of children demonstrates that they are very
>>> heavy on the First, Second, Third and Fourth Dynamics. The child is so
>>> convinced of his ability to communicate that he will touch a hot stove.
>>> Life has no terrors for him. He has not yet learned by experience that
>>> he cannot communicate. It?s the adult who is drawn back into the ?only
>>> one? and one believes that the inspiration of this continuous belief on
>>> the part of a psychologist and psychoanalyst that the child is entirely
>>> self-centered and living in his own world must be the expression of an
>>> opinion held by the psychoanalyst and psychologist out of his own
>>> bank. As one grows one goes less and less into communication with
>>> the environment until he is at last entirely out of it. Only he is out of
>>> it
>>> in the wrong direction ? dead.
>>> Where you see aberration, where you would wish to detect
>>> aberration, you must look for violations in the communication formula.
>>> People who consistently and continually violate portions of the
>>> communication formula can be suspected of being just that dead. The
>>> further one departs from the communication formula the more death
>>> exists for them. The more concentrated they become on secrets, the
>>> more they question intentions, the less they are likely to assume the
>>> point of view called Cause or the point of view called Effect. ....
>>> <end of quote>
>>>
>>> For those who do not have a copy of "DIANETICS 55!" at hand and
>>> are interested, you can download it as pdf her:
>>>
>>> http://liferepairspecialist.com/ScientologyMaterials/index.
>>> php?dir=Books%2F&download=1955+DIANETICS+55.pdf
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Robin
>>>
>>> --------------
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 05:25:47 +0200, <trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Send TROM mailing list submissions to
>>>
>>>>         trom@lists.newciv.org
>>>>
>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>>         http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>>         trom-requ...@lists.newciv.org
>>>>
>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>>         trom-ow...@lists.newciv.org
>>>>
>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>> than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>
>>>>    1. Re: Motivators (The Resolution of Mind list)
>>>>    2. Re: Motivators (The Resolution of Mind list)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>> Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2016 16:04:00 -0400
>>>> From: The Resolution of Mind  list <trom@lists.newciv.org>
>>>> To: The Resolution of Mind list <trom@lists.newciv.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Motivators
>>>> Message-ID: <mailman.7079.1473898554.1326.t...@lists.newciv.org>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>> Pete,
>>>>
>>>> I was doing L4  "Prevented from being known"  this morning.  And only
>>>> saw
>>>> blackness.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I just happened to come across my dianetics book, after posting that.
>>>>
>>>> And briefly  read about "shut up" etc. in engrams.
>>>>
>>>> And my dad's additional:  you don't do anything unless I tell you too.
>>>>
>>>> It would be a very good idea for everyone to read dianetics again.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 3:51 PM, The Resolution of Mind list <
>>>> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> *************
>>>>
>>>>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi David
>>>>>   First you are aware of the problem so you are close to a solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> If the motivators do not come up at level 3 then you will surely find
>>>>> them
>>>>> at level 4 when you run "Prevented from being known"
>>>>>
>>>>> When you get to level 5 you will run levels 7A and 7B
>>>>> 7A is Prevented from being known where you have lost the battle.
>>>>> 7B is Prevented from being known where you are still struggling against
>>>>> the opponent who is preventing you from being known.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely
>>>>> Pete McLaughlin
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 14, 2016, at 10:50 AM, The Resolution of Mind list <
>>>>> trom@lists.newciv.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> *************
>>>>> The following message is relayed to you by  trom@lists.newciv.org
>>>>> ************
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Pete,
>>>>>
>>>>> One thing I realized is that I can't find motivators.
>>>>>
>>>>> My dad beat the idea of fighting back (or developing motivators ) out
>>>>> of
>>>>> me very early.
>>>>>
>>>>> He "nipped it in the bud", as some say.
>>>>>
>>>>> I cannot stand up for myself.  I cannot fight. I can't even argue for
>>>>> myself.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is  what is part of catatonia and cataplexy and catalepsy.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That is what Hubbard is talking about in Dianetics when he says the
>>>>> Spartans would have no use for such an individual in their army.  They
>>>>> would feed him to the wolves. That is in my words,  because it too much
>>>>> trouble to look up.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have any suggestions on how to process that problem?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>> TROM mailing list
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>> End of TROM Digest, Vol 143, Issue 23
>> *************************************
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