************* The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] ************
Who wrote this?
On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 1:47 AM, The Resolution of Mind list < [email protected]> wrote: > ************* > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > ************ > Hi Robin > Ok, we are getting to the meat of the issue. > Are Scientology and TROM correct that this universe consists of only life > and postulates. If so then finding and as-ising the original postulate > would instantly change anything. > > Why was your PC still stuttering? I would assume he had a number of > postulates which included stuttering as a solution to life's difficulties > and there was more work to do. > > I am most interested in the answer as i am trying to become proficient at > making changes in my life and helping other do so. > > In your experience with auditing have you found that there is some other > work necessary to make life changes. I.e. If someone wants to give up > smoking or loose 20 pounds or some such what is the most effective way or > ways to go about it? > > Sincerely > Pete Mclaughlin > > Sent from my iPad > > > On Jan 22, 2017, at 10:21 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > ************* > > The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > > ************ > > Hi Pete, > > > > ok, it seems I get your viewpoint. We have said more or less something > > similar. What I call "different approach" you see as the "three possible > > methods". > > > > My understanding of a postulate apparently differs in so far from yours > > as I see a postulate as something separated from the effect which the > > postulate creates. In our example this would be: Postulate = "to smoke". > > The effect(s) are: I light a cigarette, produce smoke, get a sore throat, > > my wife complains about the bad smell, it makes me calm, ... > > In short we could sum up the effects into "smokingness" ;-). > > > >> create: make, manufacture, construct, postulate, bring into beingness. > > > > As far as I understand you, you associate very strong the postulating > > with the effect. This seems to suggest itself; it seems practical because > > the effect is so immediate when a postulate is made. > > > > It's great when it works so well for you. I sincerely wish it would work > > as well for anyone else. > > > > I once audited someone on NED who stuttered. This PC regarded his > stuttering > > as a severe problem which he wanted to have resolved. We went back along > > a chain of incidents and found a postulate. PC finally had F/N, VGI's, > cognition. > > The PC thanked me, the examiner was happy, case supervisor was happy, > > Only I was slightly not so happy. The PC still stuttered. > > > > And why can David not make your proposed method work for him? > > > > Muriel Chen herself does not utter the word "postulate" a single time. > > The book itself is excellent. Read it at first a couple years ago. > > Reread it recently because you introduced it here. It's what it claims > > to be - a first aid book. But beyond that? > > > > Best regards > > > > Robin > > > > > > ----- > > > > > >> On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 19:34:51 +0100, <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> > >> Send TROM mailing list submissions to > >> [email protected] > >> > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >> [email protected] > >> > >> You can reach the person managing the list at > >> [email protected] > >> > >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >> than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..." > >> > >> > >> Today's Topics: > >> > >> 1. Postulate (e.g.. to stop smoking) - Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147, > >> Issue 12 (The Resolution of Mind list) > >> 2. Re: Postulate (e.g.. to stop smoking) - Re: TROM Digest, Vol > >> 147, Issue 12 (The Resolution of Mind list) > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Message: 1 > >> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 16:09:43 +0100 > >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: [TROM1] Postulate (e.g.. to stop smoking) - Re: TROM Digest, > >> Vol 147, Issue 12 > >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed; > >> delsp=yes > >> > >> Hi Pete, > >> > >> when you stopped smoking, was it essential for you to go back > >> to the moment where you decided to start smoking? > >> > >> Different approaches to this kind of problems are possible > >> and whatever helped you to get rid of an unwanted habit is fine. > >> In that respect there is no right or wrong way. > >> > >> You could have made as well a new postulate in PT which overrules > >> the old one. People often do that when a new year starts. They say: > >> "From now on I quit smoking." It does not work for all because > >> they can not make this postulate "stick". But often enough it does. > >> > >> The example is on a relative low gradient. You have been most likely > >> well aware when you smoked your first cigarette, no trauma involved. > >> > >> But the real severe aberrations are not so easily handled. You have > >> to dig out the postulate(s) first. > >> > >> Dennis on L5 does not care about specific postulates. He uses a kind > >> of abstraction. He lets you put up the most general package's (to know) > >> postulates on both sides and then you see what pops up. You do not > >> timebreake the postulate but the incidents, persons, feelings and so on. > >> > >> The point is, that a postulate does not belong to the same category > >> as e.g. a mass, a charge, facsimiles, aso. > >> > >> A PC who does not make a differentiation between those things might > >> think that he must "run" a postulate in order to "erase" it. > >> Certainly we can let him find out the hard way. But is it not > >> better to get a good grasp on the terms we use? > >> > >> > >> Regards > >> > >> Robin > >> > >> > >> ---- > >> > >> > >>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 13:00:02 +0100, <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>> Send TROM mailing list submissions to > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> You can reach the person managing the list at > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >>> than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..." > >>> > >>> > >>> Today's Topics: > >>> > >>> 1. Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147) > >>> (The Resolution of Mind list) > >>> 2. Re: Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147) > >>> (The Resolution of Mind list) > >>> 3. Re: Fwd: Vorb's Trom Diary at 250 hours: The raging yawn - > >>> (The Resolution of Mind list) > >>> > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> Message: 1 > >>> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 09:55:07 +0100 > >>> From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: [TROM1] Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147) > >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes > >>> > >>> <snip> > >>>>> > >>>>> I have been doing that on different issues for years, and I can't say > >>>>> I have had success. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> David > >>>>> > >>> <snip> > >>> > >>> > >>> David, Pete, anyone concerned, > >>> > >>> most of the misunderstandings and questions about postulates do easily > >>> resolve when you just look thoroughly at a couple of definitions. > >>> Below you find the most important ones regarding the subject of > >>> postulates, already brought into meaningful sequence: > >>> > >>> [POSTULATE, n. 1. a self-created truth would be simply the > consideration > >>> generated by self. Well, we just borrow the word which is in seldom use > >>> in > >>> the > >>> English language, we call that postulate. And we mean by postulate, > >>> selfcreated > >>> truth. He posts something. He puts something up and that?s what a > >>> postulate is. (HPC A6-4, 5608C--) 2. a postulate is, of course, that > >>> thing > >>> which is a directed desire or order, or inhibition, or enforcement, on > >>> the > >>> part > >>> of the individual in the form of an idea. (2ACC 23A, 5312CM14) 3 . that > >>> self determined thought which starts, stops or changes past, present or > >>> future > >>> efforts. > >>> (APIA, p. 33) 4 . is actually a prediction. (5112CM30B)?v. 1 . in Scn > the > >>> word > >>> postulate means to cause a thinkingness or consideration. It is a > >>> specially > >>> applied word and is defined as causative thinkingness. (FOT, p. 71) 2 . > >>> to > >>> conclude, decide or resolve a problem or to set a pattern for the > future > >>> or to > >>> nullify a pattern of the past. (HFP, p. 155) 3 . to generate or > ?think? a > >>> concept. A postulate infers conditions and actions rather than just > plain > >>> thinks. It has a dynamic connotation. (SH Spec 84, 6612C13)] > >>> > >>> > >>> There are a couple of flavors of postulates: > >>> > >>> [OPPOSITE POSTULATE, an individual who has made a postulate on a > subject > >>> experiences "failure" when he has to make an opposite postulate later. > >>> The > >>> opposite postulate has the effect of a negative postulate. The opposite > >>> postulate is distinguished from a negative postulate because it depends > >>> upon > >>> effort which a negative postulate does not necessarily have to do. > (AP&A, > >>> P. > >>> 34)] > >>> > >>> > >>> (The above may be of special interest for those people who are > concerned > >>> with TROM.) > >>> > >>> [NEGATIVE POSTULATE, the postulate not to be. It cancels past > postulates > >>> and it also cancels, in greater or lesser degree, the entire > individual. > >>> (AP&A, > >>> p. 34)] > >>> > >>> [PAST POSTULATES, decisions or conclusions the preclear has made in the > >>> past > >>> and to which he is still subjected in the present. Past postulates are > >>> uniformly > >>> invalid since they cannot resolve present environment. (NFP Gloss)] > >>> > >>> > >>> This is not a definition per se, but an applicable notion: > >>> > >>> "The universe consists of life and postulates" - DHS > >>> > >>> Now, we are legitimate to substitute "life" with "theta". > >>> They are not precisely synonymous but never the less we can get > >>> some sense out of: "The Universe consists of Theta and postulates." > >>> > >>> Actually it answers a question, you David, recently posed. > >>> It was the question regarding what a Thetan can do, what his > >>> abilities are. > >>> > >>> The list of a Thetan's abilities is rather short. It contains > >>> one item only: > >>> > >>> A Thetan postulates > >>> > >>> Well, does not look too impressive. But look again. This single > >>> item covers it all. > >>> > >>> Now see the Scale Of Reality: > >>> > >>> [SCALE OF REALITY, 1. the reality scale refers to the individual?s hold > >>> on > >>> reality and his agreement with others on what reality is. (NOTL, p. > 103) > >>> 2 > >>> . at > >>> the bottom there is nothing, above that there is a communication line, > >>> the > >>> line > >>> becomes more solid, then above that terminals begin to materialize > >>> lightly > >>> and > >>> the line becomes less solid, then above that you have the terminals and > >>> you > >>> don?t have any lines, and above that the terminals are there mostly by > >>> agreement, above that there is agreement, and above agreement there is > >>> consideration, individual consideration, and above that there is > >>> postulate. > >>> That is the Scale of Reality. (PAB 154)] > >>> > >>> > >>> Actually you better look at the scale upside-down. > >>> I give it again below. > >>> > >>> At the scales top you come close to "static". The lower you go > >>> along the scale the more solid it gets. > >>> > >>> You see we start from: > >>> > >>> Postulate, > >>> Individual Consideration, > >>> Consideration, > >>> Agreement, > >>> Terminals, ... the different flavors (solidities) of Communication ... > >>> > >>> As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that > >>> it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to > >>> suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could > >>> then as-is a Thetan. A funny idea. Please do not worry, no Thetan is > >>> in danger to be annihilated by another Thetan, or in the course of > >>> processing through as-ising. That would make an interesting paradox. > >>> Simply because no one who would have regained such an ability would > >>> ever care about any Thetan or processing at all. > >>> > >>> As well a postulate will not produce any read on a meter. Except > >>> this one here: "This meter's needle is going to move!" > >>> Those PC's who are already in good shape would rather move the > >>> whole universe around the needle's pivot point instead ;-) > >>> > >>> What makes the meter read is the effects which our postulates > >>> create. In other words the postulate's manifestations in terms of > >>> particles, movement, energies, masses (condensed energy), feelings, > >>> emotions, images, charges, screens, symbols, ... you name it. > >>> > >>> One can place a postulate into a solid - e.g. a wall. You may > >>> or may not be able to "as-is" that wall. The postulate still remains. > >>> > >>> Any postulate - consideration - thought (in that sequence) ever > >>> brought forth by theta always was and always will be. > >>> (Quiz-question: Which often used Bible-quotes says the same > >>> in other words?) > >>> > >>> Why is it then, that we are that much concerned with postulates in > >>> any clearing technique which deserves to be called such? > >>> > >>> What we have a problem with, is not the postulates itself but rather > >>> that we can not make our postulates 'stick' - at least not in a > >>> predictable and desirable manner. > >>> > >>> Through the eons we came down we had put much attention and cleverness > >>> into the activity of building enormously complex postulate structures > >>> with tons of lies, false ownerships (valences, co-creation), > >>> complicated mechanisms of forgettingness, blackness, dub-ins, > >>> automaticities, machinery of all kinds, aso. > >>> > >>> The sole purpose of processing is to reestablish some order in that > >>> chaos. In order to entangle the postulate structures you have to > >>> go about it in a logical manner. You put aside a lot of rubbish first > >>> until you can see through the complex fabric. > >>> > >>> Why do we not just postulate ourself into a perfectly unaberated, > >>> healthy, > >>> able state? Presumably because we did not want it that way. Would be > too > >>> easy. No fun in the game. It would constitute the same paradox > >>> which was already mentioned further above in this text. > >>> > >>> Therefore it does you no good if you use effort or be inpatient or > >>> operate on false assumptions right form the beginning. False > expectations > >>> (e.g. Hidden Standards) will rather slow you down. Effort will only > >>> add to the solidity of ones reactive mind. > >>> > >>> [CLEARING, 1 . a gradient process of finding places where attention is > >>> fixed and > >>> restoring the ability of the pc to place and remove attention under his > >>> own > >>> determinism. (HCOB 28 Feb 59) 2 . what is clearing but regaining > >>> awareness > >>> that one is himself, and regaining confidence. (HCOB 1 Feb 58)] > >>> > >>> (Emphasis on "gradient" in def.1) > >>> > >>> Confidence in what? > >>> > >>> In the only thing a Thetan can do :-) > >>> > >>> > >>> Robin > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 2 > >>> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 03:56:40 -0800 > >>> From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147) > >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >>> > >>> Robin > >>> You said "As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that > >>> it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to > >>> suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could > >>> then as-is a Thetan. " > >>> > >>> What is the problem with as-using a postulate? If i made a postulate to > >>> smoke cigarettes in the past and want to stop smoking now then the > >>> correct way to do it is to examine, duplicate the original postulate > and > >>> as-is it at which point i will no longer smoke cigarettes. Isn't this > >>> the way it works? > >>> > >>> Sincerely > >>> Pete Mclaughlin > >>> > >>> Sent from my iPad > >>> > >>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 12:55 AM, The Resolution of Mind list > >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that > >>>> it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to > >>>> suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could > >>>> then as-is a Thetan. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> Message: 3 > >>> Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:18:04 -0500 > >>> From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > >>> To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > >>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Fwd: Vorb's Trom Diary at 250 hours: The raging > >>> yawn - > >>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >>> > >>> Pete, > >>> > >>> I do not know. > >>> > >>> I have never smoked or did any drugs except for experimentation, and > >>> found > >>> it repulsive or depressing. > >>> > >>> Never had an addiction to alcohol either, actually do not like the > >>> effects > >>> of alcohol. > >>> > >>> David > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 2:01 AM, The Resolution of Mind list < > >>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>>> ************* > >>>> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > >>>> ************ > >>>> > >>>> Hi David > >>>> How do you change a postulate after you have made it? > >>>> For instance if you decided to start smoking as a kid how would you go > >>>> about changing your mind and not smoking from now on? > >>>> > >>>> Sincerely > >>>> Pete McLaughlin > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPad > >>>> > >>>> On Jan 17, 2017, at 4:51 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> ************* > >>>> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > >>>> ************ > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for your reply, Pete. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I have been doing that on different issues for years, and I can't > say I > >>>> have had success. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> David > >>>> > >>>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 6:35 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> ************* > >>>>> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > >>>>> ************ > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi David > >>>>> > >>>>> Yes is am applying axiom 16. Any time i have an ache, pain or > >>>>> mis-emotion i focus my attention on it and duplicate it, view it, see > >>>>> it as > >>>>> clearly as possible. > >>>>> If it is a sore thumb i look at the sensations and try to visualize > the > >>>>> exact tissues in the thumb that are producing the pain sensation. I > >>>>> look > >>>>> for any incident in the past that is involved but usually there is > >>>>> none so > >>>>> i just focus on the painful sensation to make it as intense and the > >>>>> source > >>>>> of the pain as clear as possible. > >>>>> Then I continue to focus on this sensation, pain , mis emotion > whatever > >>>>> and it will soon fade away. > >>>>> > >>>>> Then i carry on with what task i was doing. > >>>>> > >>>>> Muriel Chen's book is all about applying this method to a number of > >>>>> situations. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sincerely > >>>>> Pete McLaughlin > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPad > >>>>> > >>>>> On Jan 15, 2017, at 5:14 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < > >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> ************* > >>>>> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > >>>>> ************ > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Pete, > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Thank you for posting that. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Have you been able to make that axiom work? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> If so how? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> And what were the results? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> David > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < > >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> ************* > >>>>>> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > >>>>>> ************ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi David > >>>>>> The book "The Creation of Human Ability" contains a list of self > >>>>>> evident truths derived from the "Logics and Axioms". > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Item 16 is > >>>>>> > >>>>>> 16. COMPLETE DESTRUCTION IS ACCOMPLISHED BY THE POSTULATION OF THE > AS- > >>>>>> IS- NESS OF ANY EXISTENCE AND THE PARTS THEREOF. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> So Hubbard did present a method to un-mock a postulate. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The book is downloadable as a pdf here: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/Books/195 > >>>>>> 4%20CREATION%20OF%20HUMAN%20ABILITY.pdf > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sincerely > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Pete McLaughlin > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> TROM mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> TROM mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> TROM mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > >>>> > >>>> > >>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>> URL: > >>> <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/ > 20170121/c522eb12/attachment-0001.html> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> TROM mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > >>> > >>> > >>> End of TROM Digest, Vol 147, Issue 12 > >>> ************************************* > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> Message: 2 > >> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 10:32:59 -0800 > >> From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Postulate (e.g.. to stop smoking) - Re: TROM > >> Digest, Vol 147, Issue 12 > >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >> > >> Hi Robin > >> As you and Dennis and Hubbard say life consists of thetans and > postulates. So why complicate changing my postulate "to smoke" with > "different approaches"? > >> > >> From the Fundamentals of Thought (below) you see that the cycle of > action is: > >> Create > >> Create-create-create > >> Counter create > >> > >> And from the Scientology Glossary the definition of As-is gives us > three ways to stop smoking > >> > >> Once i created the postulate to smoke i can stop smoking by As-ising > the postulate to smoke > >> Or i can postulate to not smoke which is a counter creation to the > original postulate > >> > >> Or i can simply fail to continue smoking which is a no-create on the > postulate. This could happen if i decided to smoke but a blight wiped out > the tobacco plants so there where no more cigarettes. > >> > >> These are the only course of action possible to stop smoking. In fact > i counter created by postulating that smoking was causing me to have soar > throats so i HAD to stop or i would continue to have soar throats. > >> > >> So you see that changing my mind about anything i postulated in the > past can be accomplished by these three methods. > >> > >> Sincerely > >> Pete McLaughlin > >> > >> > >> Scientology Glossary > >> as-is: to view anything exactly as it is, without any distortions or > lies, at which moment it vanishes and ceases to exist. See also as-isness. > >> > >> as-isness: the condition of immediate creation without persistence, and > is the condition of existence which exists at the moment of creation and > the moment of destruction, and is different from other considerations in > that it does not contain survival. > >> > >> > >> > >> create: make, manufacture, construct, postulate, bring into beingness. > >> > >> create-counter-create: to create something against a creation; to > create one thing and then create something else against it, bringing about > the destruction of the first creation. > >> > >> create-create-create: create again continuously one moment after the > next. This is survival. See also create. > >> > >> > >> > >> start-change-stop: the cycle of action in this universe, which is also > the anatomy of control. Almost the entire subject of control is summed up > in the ability to start, change and stop one?s activities, body and one?s > environment. See also cycle of action. > >> > >> > >> > >> Fundamentals of Thought > >> > >> > >> > >> THE ACTUAL CYCLE OF ACTION THE ACTUAL CYCLE OF ACTION is as > follows: CREATE, create-create-create, create-counter-create, no > creation, nothingness. CREATE = make, manufacture, construct, > postulate, bring into beingness = CREATE. Create-create-create = > create again continuously one moment after the next = SURVIV AL. > Create-counter-create = to create something against a creation = > to create one thing and then create something else against it = > DESTROY. No creation = an absence of any creation = no creative > activity. AN ACTUAL cycle of action then consists of various > activities but each and every one of them is creative. The cycle > of action contains an APPARENCY of SURVIVAL but this is actually > only a continuous creation. The APPARENT cycle of action contains > DESTRUCTION but the ACTUAL cycle of action tells us what destruction > is. DESTRUCTION is one of TWO activities. > >> > >> > >> Sent from my iPad > >> > >>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 7:09 AM, The Resolution of Mind list < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>> > >>> ************* > >>> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > >>> ************ > >>> Hi Pete, > >>> > >>> when you stopped smoking, was it essential for you to go back > >>> to the moment where you decided to start smoking? > >>> > >>> Different approaches to this kind of problems are possible > >>> and whatever helped you to get rid of an unwanted habit is fine. > >>> In that respect there is no right or wrong way. > >>> > >>> You could have made as well a new postulate in PT which overrules > >>> the old one. People often do that when a new year starts. They say: > >>> "From now on I quit smoking." It does not work for all because > >>> they can not make this postulate "stick". But often enough it does. > >>> > >>> The example is on a relative low gradient. You have been most likely > >>> well aware when you smoked your first cigarette, no trauma involved. > >>> > >>> But the real severe aberrations are not so easily handled. You have > >>> to dig out the postulate(s) first. > >>> > >>> Dennis on L5 does not care about specific postulates. He uses a kind > >>> of abstraction. He lets you put up the most general package's (to know) > >>> postulates on both sides and then you see what pops up. You do not > >>> timebreake the postulate but the incidents, persons, feelings and so > on. > >>> > >>> The point is, that a postulate does not belong to the same category > >>> as e.g. a mass, a charge, facsimiles, aso. > >>> > >>> A PC who does not make a differentiation between those things might > >>> think that he must "run" a postulate in order to "erase" it. > >>> Certainly we can let him find out the hard way. But is it not > >>> better to get a good grasp on the terms we use? > >>> > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Robin > >>> > >>> > >>> ---- > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2017 13:00:02 +0100, <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>> Send TROM mailing list submissions to > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > >>>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > >>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> You can reach the person managing the list at > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> > >>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > >>>> than "Re: Contents of TROM digest..." > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Today's Topics: > >>>> > >>>> 1. Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147) > >>>> (The Resolution of Mind list) > >>>> 2. Re: Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147) > >>>> (The Resolution of Mind list) > >>>> 3. Re: Fwd: Vorb's Trom Diary at 250 hours: The raging yawn - > >>>> (The Resolution of Mind list) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------ > ---------- > >>>> > >>>> Message: 1 > >>>> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 09:55:07 +0100 > >>>> From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Subject: [TROM1] Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147) > >>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; delsp=yes > >>>> > >>>> <snip> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I have been doing that on different issues for years, and I can't > say > >>>>>> I have had success. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> David > >>>>>> > >>>> <snip> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> David, Pete, anyone concerned, > >>>> > >>>> most of the misunderstandings and questions about postulates do easily > >>>> resolve when you just look thoroughly at a couple of definitions. > >>>> Below you find the most important ones regarding the subject of > >>>> postulates, already brought into meaningful sequence: > >>>> > >>>> [POSTULATE, n. 1. a self-created truth would be simply the > consideration > >>>> generated by self. Well, we just borrow the word which is in seldom > use in > >>>> the > >>>> English language, we call that postulate. And we mean by postulate, > >>>> selfcreated > >>>> truth. He posts something. He puts something up and that?s what a > >>>> postulate is. (HPC A6-4, 5608C--) 2. a postulate is, of course, that > thing > >>>> which is a directed desire or order, or inhibition, or enforcement, > on the > >>>> part > >>>> of the individual in the form of an idea. (2ACC 23A, 5312CM14) 3 . > that > >>>> self determined thought which starts, stops or changes past, present > or > >>>> future > >>>> efforts. > >>>> (APIA, p. 33) 4 . is actually a prediction. (5112CM30B)?v. 1 . in Scn > the > >>>> word > >>>> postulate means to cause a thinkingness or consideration. It is a > specially > >>>> applied word and is defined as causative thinkingness. (FOT, p. 71) 2 > . to > >>>> conclude, decide or resolve a problem or to set a pattern for the > future > >>>> or to > >>>> nullify a pattern of the past. (HFP, p. 155) 3 . to generate or > ?think? a > >>>> concept. A postulate infers conditions and actions rather than just > plain > >>>> thinks. It has a dynamic connotation. (SH Spec 84, 6612C13)] > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> There are a couple of flavors of postulates: > >>>> > >>>> [OPPOSITE POSTULATE, an individual who has made a postulate on a > subject > >>>> experiences "failure" when he has to make an opposite postulate > later. The > >>>> opposite postulate has the effect of a negative postulate. The > opposite > >>>> postulate is distinguished from a negative postulate because it > depends > >>>> upon > >>>> effort which a negative postulate does not necessarily have to do. > (AP&A, > >>>> P. > >>>> 34)] > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> (The above may be of special interest for those people who are > concerned > >>>> with TROM.) > >>>> > >>>> [NEGATIVE POSTULATE, the postulate not to be. It cancels past > postulates > >>>> and it also cancels, in greater or lesser degree, the entire > individual. > >>>> (AP&A, > >>>> p. 34)] > >>>> > >>>> [PAST POSTULATES, decisions or conclusions the preclear has made in > the > >>>> past > >>>> and to which he is still subjected in the present. Past postulates are > >>>> uniformly > >>>> invalid since they cannot resolve present environment. (NFP Gloss)] > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> This is not a definition per se, but an applicable notion: > >>>> > >>>> "The universe consists of life and postulates" - DHS > >>>> > >>>> Now, we are legitimate to substitute "life" with "theta". > >>>> They are not precisely synonymous but never the less we can get > >>>> some sense out of: "The Universe consists of Theta and postulates." > >>>> > >>>> Actually it answers a question, you David, recently posed. > >>>> It was the question regarding what a Thetan can do, what his > >>>> abilities are. > >>>> > >>>> The list of a Thetan's abilities is rather short. It contains > >>>> one item only: > >>>> > >>>> A Thetan postulates > >>>> > >>>> Well, does not look too impressive. But look again. This single > >>>> item covers it all. > >>>> > >>>> Now see the Scale Of Reality: > >>>> > >>>> [SCALE OF REALITY, 1. the reality scale refers to the individual?s > hold on > >>>> reality and his agreement with others on what reality is. (NOTL, p. > 103) 2 > >>>> . at > >>>> the bottom there is nothing, above that there is a communication > line, the > >>>> line > >>>> becomes more solid, then above that terminals begin to materialize > lightly > >>>> and > >>>> the line becomes less solid, then above that you have the terminals > and you > >>>> don?t have any lines, and above that the terminals are there mostly by > >>>> agreement, above that there is agreement, and above agreement there is > >>>> consideration, individual consideration, and above that there is > postulate. > >>>> That is the Scale of Reality. (PAB 154)] > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Actually you better look at the scale upside-down. > >>>> I give it again below. > >>>> > >>>> At the scales top you come close to "static". The lower you go > >>>> along the scale the more solid it gets. > >>>> > >>>> You see we start from: > >>>> > >>>> Postulate, > >>>> Individual Consideration, > >>>> Consideration, > >>>> Agreement, > >>>> Terminals, ... the different flavors (solidities) of Communication ... > >>>> > >>>> As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that > >>>> it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to > >>>> suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could > >>>> then as-is a Thetan. A funny idea. Please do not worry, no Thetan is > >>>> in danger to be annihilated by another Thetan, or in the course of > >>>> processing through as-ising. That would make an interesting paradox. > >>>> Simply because no one who would have regained such an ability would > >>>> ever care about any Thetan or processing at all. > >>>> > >>>> As well a postulate will not produce any read on a meter. Except > >>>> this one here: "This meter's needle is going to move!" > >>>> Those PC's who are already in good shape would rather move the > >>>> whole universe around the needle's pivot point instead ;-) > >>>> > >>>> What makes the meter read is the effects which our postulates > >>>> create. In other words the postulate's manifestations in terms of > >>>> particles, movement, energies, masses (condensed energy), feelings, > >>>> emotions, images, charges, screens, symbols, ... you name it. > >>>> > >>>> One can place a postulate into a solid - e.g. a wall. You may > >>>> or may not be able to "as-is" that wall. The postulate still remains. > >>>> > >>>> Any postulate - consideration - thought (in that sequence) ever > >>>> brought forth by theta always was and always will be. > >>>> (Quiz-question: Which often used Bible-quotes says the same > >>>> in other words?) > >>>> > >>>> Why is it then, that we are that much concerned with postulates in > >>>> any clearing technique which deserves to be called such? > >>>> > >>>> What we have a problem with, is not the postulates itself but rather > >>>> that we can not make our postulates 'stick' - at least not in a > >>>> predictable and desirable manner. > >>>> > >>>> Through the eons we came down we had put much attention and cleverness > >>>> into the activity of building enormously complex postulate structures > >>>> with tons of lies, false ownerships (valences, co-creation), > >>>> complicated mechanisms of forgettingness, blackness, dub-ins, > >>>> automaticities, machinery of all kinds, aso. > >>>> > >>>> The sole purpose of processing is to reestablish some order in that > >>>> chaos. In order to entangle the postulate structures you have to > >>>> go about it in a logical manner. You put aside a lot of rubbish first > >>>> until you can see through the complex fabric. > >>>> > >>>> Why do we not just postulate ourself into a perfectly unaberated, > healthy, > >>>> able state? Presumably because we did not want it that way. Would be > too > >>>> easy. No fun in the game. It would constitute the same paradox > >>>> which was already mentioned further above in this text. > >>>> > >>>> Therefore it does you no good if you use effort or be inpatient or > >>>> operate on false assumptions right form the beginning. False > expectations > >>>> (e.g. Hidden Standards) will rather slow you down. Effort will only > >>>> add to the solidity of ones reactive mind. > >>>> > >>>> [CLEARING, 1 . a gradient process of finding places where attention is > >>>> fixed and > >>>> restoring the ability of the pc to place and remove attention under > his own > >>>> determinism. (HCOB 28 Feb 59) 2 . what is clearing but regaining > awareness > >>>> that one is himself, and regaining confidence. (HCOB 1 Feb 58)] > >>>> > >>>> (Emphasis on "gradient" in def.1) > >>>> > >>>> Confidence in what? > >>>> > >>>> In the only thing a Thetan can do :-) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Robin > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> Message: 2 > >>>> Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2017 03:56:40 -0800 > >>>> From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > >>>> To: [email protected] > >>>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Postulates (2) - (Re: TROM Digest, Vol 147) > >>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >>>> > >>>> Robin > >>>> You said "As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize > that > >>>> it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to > >>>> suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could > >>>> then as-is a Thetan. " > >>>> > >>>> What is the problem with as-using a postulate? If i made a postulate > to smoke cigarettes in the past and want to stop smoking now then the > correct way to do it is to examine, duplicate the original postulate and > as-is it at which point i will no longer smoke cigarettes. Isn't this the > way it works? > >>>> > >>>> Sincerely > >>>> Pete Mclaughlin > >>>> > >>>> Sent from my iPad > >>>> > >>>>> On Jan 22, 2017, at 12:55 AM, The Resolution of Mind list < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> As soon as you get a grasp on the above you will realize that > >>>>> it is somehow misleading or inaccurate - to say the least - to > >>>>> suggest the possibility of "as-ising" a postulate. As well one could > >>>>> then as-is a Thetan. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> Message: 3 > >>>> Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2017 21:18:04 -0500 > >>>> From: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > >>>> To: The Resolution of Mind list <[email protected]> > >>>> Subject: Re: [TROM1] Fwd: Vorb's Trom Diary at 250 hours: The raging > >>>> yawn - > >>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> > >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >>>> > >>>> Pete, > >>>> > >>>> I do not know. > >>>> > >>>> I have never smoked or did any drugs except for experimentation, and > found > >>>> it repulsive or depressing. > >>>> > >>>> Never had an addiction to alcohol either, actually do not like the > effects > >>>> of alcohol. > >>>> > >>>> David > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 2:01 AM, The Resolution of Mind list < > >>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> ************* > >>>>> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > >>>>> ************ > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi David > >>>>> How do you change a postulate after you have made it? > >>>>> For instance if you decided to start smoking as a kid how would you > go > >>>>> about changing your mind and not smoking from now on? > >>>>> > >>>>> Sincerely > >>>>> Pete McLaughlin > >>>>> > >>>>> Sent from my iPad > >>>>> > >>>>> On Jan 17, 2017, at 4:51 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < > >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> ************* > >>>>> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > >>>>> ************ > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks for your reply, Pete. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> I have been doing that on different issues for years, and I can't > say I > >>>>> have had success. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> David > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 6:35 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < > >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> ************* > >>>>>> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > >>>>>> ************ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi David > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Yes is am applying axiom 16. Any time i have an ache, pain or > >>>>>> mis-emotion i focus my attention on it and duplicate it, view it, > see it as > >>>>>> clearly as possible. > >>>>>> If it is a sore thumb i look at the sensations and try to visualize > the > >>>>>> exact tissues in the thumb that are producing the pain sensation. I > look > >>>>>> for any incident in the past that is involved but usually there is > none so > >>>>>> i just focus on the painful sensation to make it as intense and the > source > >>>>>> of the pain as clear as possible. > >>>>>> Then I continue to focus on this sensation, pain , mis emotion > whatever > >>>>>> and it will soon fade away. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Then i carry on with what task i was doing. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Muriel Chen's book is all about applying this method to a number of > >>>>>> situations. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sincerely > >>>>>> Pete McLaughlin > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Sent from my iPad > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Jan 15, 2017, at 5:14 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < > >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> ************* > >>>>>> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > >>>>>> ************ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Pete, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thank you for posting that. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Have you been able to make that axiom work? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If so how? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And what were the results? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> David > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 2:39 PM, The Resolution of Mind list < > >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> ************* > >>>>>>> The following message is relayed to you by [email protected] > >>>>>>> ************ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi David > >>>>>>> The book "The Creation of Human Ability" contains a list of self > >>>>>>> evident truths derived from the "Logics and Axioms". > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Item 16 is > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> 16. COMPLETE DESTRUCTION IS ACCOMPLISHED BY THE POSTULATION OF THE > AS- > >>>>>>> IS- NESS OF ANY EXISTENCE AND THE PARTS THEREOF. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> So Hubbard did present a method to un-mock a postulate. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> The book is downloadable as a pdf here: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> http://www.matrixfiles.com/Scientology%20Materials/Books/195 > >>>>>>> 4%20CREATION%20OF%20HUMAN%20ABILITY.pdf > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Sincerely > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Pete McLaughlin > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> TROM mailing list > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> TROM mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> TROM mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> -------------- next part -------------- > >>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >>>> URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/ > 20170121/c522eb12/attachment-0001.html> > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------ > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> TROM mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> End of TROM Digest, Vol 147, Issue 12 > >>>> ************************************* > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> TROM mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > >> -------------- next part -------------- > >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > >> URL: <http://lists.newciv.org/pipermail/trom/attachments/ > 20170122/65cb59ff/attachment.html> > >> > >> ------------------------------ > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> TROM mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > >> > >> > >> End of TROM Digest, Vol 147, Issue 13 > >> ************************************* > > _______________________________________________ > > TROM mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom > > _______________________________________________ > TROM mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom >
_______________________________________________ TROM mailing list [email protected] http://lists.newciv.org/mailman/listinfo/trom
