� David Miller wrote:
> DAVEH: > > The "facts" are that neither you nor DavidM were > > able to exactly quote the words from the BofM > > that both you claimed the BofM used. > > I never claimed to quote the exact words when I used the word "Bible."� I > paraphrased the passage.� The problem is that the Book of Mormon is very > unclear and unspecific on this point.� The Book of Mormon is apparently > difficult to understand, DAVEH:� Perhaps reading the entire book would be of benefit.� And certainly, placing it in context with other LDS Scripture helps understand our belief about the Bible.� As I've repeatedly said, I "believe the Bible to be the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly".�� That is official LDS doctrine and is contained in our latter-day Scripture. > especially in this place, and has led us to > different interpretations regarding its meaning. DAVEH:� As I've said before, if you don't understand LDS theology, just ask and I'll explain how I understand it.� The problem is that even after I have explained my beliefs, some folks insist on telling me that I believe differently or that I'm lying. > �Blaine made it clearer for > us when he said that "the book" was referring to the Bible.� Once we knew > that, then we understood why you always say that you believe the Bible as > far as it is translated correctly. DAVEH:�� Whew......then perhaps you do understand some of what I believe! > For example, consider this verse 29 in total.� It makes for very awkward and > confusing reading: > > "And after these plain and precious things were taken away it goeth forth > unto all the nations of the Gentiles; and after it goeth forth unto all the > nations of the Gentiles, yea, even across the many waters which thou hast > seen with the Gentiles which have gone forth out of captivity, thou seest -- > because of the many plain and precious things which have been taken out of > the book, which were plain unto the understanding of the children of men, > according to the plainness which is in the Lamb of God -- because of these > things which are taken away out of the gospel of the Lamb, an exceedingly > great many do stumble, yea, insomuch that Satan hath great power over them." > (1 Nephi 13:29) > > Phew.� Now that long sentence is an exceedingly difficult passage to read. > That's why you always quote only part of it, DAVEH:� I hand type most of the stuff I quote, so tend to stick to the relevant parts.� For longer passages, I'll connect to the net and copy/paste, but I still don't want to bore folks with parts that aren't pertinent. > and why I paraphrase it the way > that I did.� If I had written a sentence like this in an essay at school, my > English teacher would have jumped all over me and not accepted it. DAVEH:� I would think that translations don't always translate well.� Are there not passages in the Bible that are a bit awkward? > In any case, the subject at hand is not Joseph Smith or Oliver Cowdery's > English.� The subject at hand concerns what is meant to be conveyed by this > passage.� My paraphrase is that this passage is meant to say that the Bible, > in its present state, missing many plain and precious parts, is something > which has enabled Satan to have great power over an exceedingly great many > people.� Your paraphase is that the parts that are missing has caused Satan > to have power over them.� Your paraphrase does not make logical sense, > because if there were missing parts, these would not be the source of > deception. DAVEH:� As I see it, if something is missing (viz., the doctrinal explanation whether or not baptism of infants is necessary) and different sects create their own man made doctrine to make up for that 'inadequacy', then it is the missing stuff that allows Satan to gain a foothold.� If the Bible contained the same doctrinal information about infant baptism that is included in the BofM, then it would be much harder for men to introduce errant doctrines and practices.� Let me quote Moroni 8:9-23....... [9] And after this manner did the Holy Ghost manifest the word of God unto me; wherefore, my beloved son, I know that it is solemn mockery before God, that ye should baptize little children. [10] Behold I say unto you that this thing shall ye teach -- repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little children, and they shall all be saved with their little children. [11] And their little children need no repentance, neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling the commandments unto the remission of sins. [12] But little children are alive in Christ, even from the foundation of the world; if not so, God is a partial God, and also a changeable God, and a respecter to persons; for how many little children have died without baptism! [13] Wherefore, if little children could not be saved without baptism, these must have gone to an endless hell. [14] Behold I say unto you, that he that supposeth that little children need baptism is in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity, for he hath neither faith, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should he be cut off while in the thought, he must go down to hell. [15] For awful is the wickedness to suppose that God saveth one child because of baptism, and the other must perish because he hath no baptism. [16] Wo be unto them that shall pervert the ways of the Lord after this manner, for they shall perish except they repent. Behold, I speak with boldness, having authority from God; and I fear not what man can do; for perfect love casteth out all fear. [17] And I am filled with charity, which is everlasting love; wherefore, all children are alike unto me; wherefore, I love little children with a perfect love; and they are all alike and partakers of salvation. [18] For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity. [19] Little children cannot repent; wherefore, it is awful wickedness to deny the pure mercies of God unto them, for they are all alive in him because of his mercy. [20] And he that saith that little children need baptism denieth the mercies of Christ, and setteth at naught the atonement of him and the power of his redemption. [21] Wo unto such, for they are in danger of death, hell, and an endless torment. I speak it boldly; God hath commanded me. Listen unto them and give heed, or they stand against you at the judgment-seat of Christ. [22] For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of redemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing -- [23] But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works. ........Now DavidM, if the Bible had recorded such, do you think there would be any denominations practicing infant baptism now?� Instead, it seems to me that those churches that do practice such have been influenced by Satan to introduce false doctrine into their worship. > �People are not deceived by what they don't know, DAVEH:� I think my above example would refute that assertion. > but by what > they do know, if that knowledge is incomplete or false.� People are deceived > when they receive partial and misleading information.� So it is the alledged > corrputed Bible which can only be the meaning of this passage. DAVEH:� Again, it is what is not in the Bible (or any Scripture, for that matter) that allows me to dream up their own doctrines. IMO Satan has a lot of influence in such cases. > �Why you refuse to admit this is truly amazing. DAVEH:� But it is what I believe.� When you take away from the Word of God, it allows Satan to gain a foothold.� That is why the Lord in a couple books of the Bible warned against taking away from his Word. > Peace be with you. > David Miller. > � -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ � ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
