Blainer (BlaineRBorrowman) Thanks Perry, that was excellent!! I fully enjoyed your discussion. And you definitely did represent the LDS position fairly. The BoM states several times that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are ONE GOD. Yet Joseph Smith saw two beings whom he said looked exactly alike, and the first (to appear) introduced the second as"My beloved Son." Following this introduction, the second person took over the conversation. This would indicate to me that ONE GOD in the BoM is in reference to figurative ONENESS rather than literal--in other words, the three are one in heart mind and purpose, but still separate in form. When Jesus prayed to his Father in the Garden of Gethsemene, he asked that his disciples be made one with him as he was one with the father. This supports my belief that "oneness" is of the heart, mind and purpose, not otherwise. We are clearly separate beings, so "oneness" would either have to mean we give up our separateness and become part of the divine "lump," or we retain individuality but become AS IF we are one, although not literally so. In other words, we act in concert, but still as separate individuals. I liken this to a choir, which sings as one, yet is made up of individuals.
On Sun, 08 Dec 2002 14:28:11 +0000 "Charles Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Greetings to the TruthTalk group. > > DaveH wrote: > > Even after discussing it [the Trinity] with other TTers for 3 > years > > now, I don't think I understand it enough to really > > explain it to another person. > > I would like to take a stab at helping DAVEH, and others who may > read > this, understand a little more about the Trinity. My goal here is > not to > convince, convert, or coerce any specific belief, but only to > explain the > traditional Christian view of the Trinity, and contrast it to the > LDS view. > > Since I am "on the road", I do not have the Bible references with > me. > But, if anyone would like to see them I will look them up when I get > home > and post them. This discussion will focus on the principle of the > Trinity > rather than the scriptural support for it. > > The first argument a "non-trinitarian" will use against the > Trinity is > that the word "Trinity" never occurs in the Bible. Well, if we used > THAT as > the only criterion for determining if the Trinity is real, then a > good > percentage of most religions would go out the window! So, this > argument is > specious, and frequently used as the first line of defense by those > who want > to refute the Trinity rather than understand it. I am confident that > no one > in this group is shallow enough to use this lame argument. > > The name "Trinity" and the Trinitarian doctrine are used to > resolve an > apparent paradox that appears in the Bible, but is not specifically > identified as doctrine anywhere in the Biblical texts. This paradox > is REAL, > and it is in the text, and can be seen by anyone who cares to read > it. > > The RCC and the Protestants (which I will call "traditional > Christianity") resolve this paradox by assigning three "persons" > (which in > itself is confusing already, because most of us think of "persons" > as > separate beings) to a single being. > > The LDS resolve this same paradox, but they do so by making the > Father > and the Son separate individual beings. > > At this point let me interject that a difference I have noticed > between > LDS' and traditional Christians' theology is that traditional > Christians > admit that not every concept in the Bible can be clearly understood > by men, > since "my ways are not your ways", as Jesus put it. However, the LDS > seem to > have to have a logical, humanly understandable explanation for > everything. > Their respective concepts of the Trinity reveal this. > > The paradox is thus: > > 1. Throughout the Bible is is made VERY clear that there is only one > God. > There are many passages that support this, and it generally is not a > point > of contention. > > 2. In contrast to that, the hebrew names and words used to reveal > God's name > and character are often are expressed in plural form, but in > singular usage. > > 3. There are certain acts toward GOD that are to be expressed > directly and > exclusively to God, such as praying and worship. > > 4. There are certain actions which only God can perform, such as > forgiving > sins, and performing miracles. > > and now the paradox... > > 5. All three of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit exhibit the > > exclusive attributes of God, and are given the exclusive acts of > worship and > reverence that only should be expressed to God! > > So, there are only two reasonable resolutions to this: > > 1. Either the Father and the Son are separate beings, which leads to > > polytheism, as in the LDS church. (I have heard some very > interesting > rationalizations for why this is NOT polytheism). The Holy Spirit is > not a > problem in this paradigm, since the LDS Gods have a human form and > once were > human, and each has a spirit of his own. > > 2. There are three co-existant, but separate and distinct "persons" > combined > in a single God, which are called out in the Bible as the Father, > the Son, > and the Holy Spirit. Traditional Christianity adopts this > resolution, which > avoids polytheism, but introduces a cognitive dissonance due to our > lack of > ability to fully understand this "mystery". > > So, in conclusion, the word "Trinity" is used by traditional > Christians > to express a paradoxical concept that is in the Scriptures, and the > Trinitarian doctrine was developed to provide a resolution to this > paradox, > although it does include a "mystery". > > On the other hand, the LDS concept of multiple Gods removes the > "mystery", but introduces polytheism, which must be dealt with. > > I certainly hope this helps understand the Trinitarian concept. > And, not > being LDS, I hope I have represented the LDS position fairly. > > Perry > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you > may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you > have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
