Perry, This is a good post. So true. The mormons will never go for it. :-) Izzy
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Charles Locke Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 1:47 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] The Trinity Hi DaveH, To answer your question about "substance"...I assume you are referring to the statement in the Nicene Creed regarding "...being of one substance with the Father..."? I do not think that "same substance" refers to the physical nature or attributes of the Godhead, but to the "divine" substance or nature of God. The statement identifies the unique divine nature of God, and is shared by all three elements ("persons") of the Godhead. >You ask, "Why can not there be 3 persons in the Godhead?". There ARE three "persons", but not individual separate beings, because that is polytheism, and the scripture states that there is only one God. Even the BoM states that the "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God" in several places, and the concept of the Trinity was taught in the early days of the LDS. The polytheistic aspect to LDS theology came about later, and the statement "one in purpose, etc" was used from that point on to change the original connotation of "one". You ask, "Why does the T-Doctrine is try to ignore that there are 3 individuals in the Godhead?" Because that is polytheism, regardless of how many of those gods are worshipped. >You say, "If the answer is that there is 'only one God', it seems to me >that it is obvious that there were "gods many" and Israel had trouble >sticking with the one important to them, so they were commanded to only >worship one God." Since there is only one God, then all of Israel's other gods were false gods. False gods are things that are worshipped that are not truly God. Like a golden calf, or an idol, or a graven image. To say that men are or become gods is blasphemous, at best, and exhibits the prideful nature of mankind at it's darkest. Wanting to be God is what caused Satan's fall, and the fall of Adam and Eve, and this blasphemous myth is actually being perpetuated today in several modern religions. In fact, it is the basic underpinning of humanism...that there is no higher power than man...that man is god of his universe. Man is not "of the substance of the Father". As an old traditional Christian, Smoseph Jith, once said, "As man is, God never was; as God is, man will never become." We are the CREATURES, not the CREATOR. >You say, "It doesn't seem like a paradox to me, nor do I recall ever >hearing any LDS folks thinking of it as a paradox." It is only a paradox until a resolution is found. LDS resolve the paradox by introducing polytheism, while traditional Christians choose the mystery of the Trinity to resolve it. >You quote scripture: "God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he >judgeth among the gods." PS 82:1, and you say, "And of course even Jesus quoted Psalms 82:6........I have said, Ye are gods; and all of the children of the most High." Men who sat in judgement of other men regarding the laws of God were called "gods" in the KJV, and this does not imply that they were or would become divine. In fact, if you read a little further in Psalms 82, the truth is revealed in verse 7: "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes." Why? Because they WERE men. You probably have a Strong's concordance. Check out the hebrew word translated as "gods" in those passages and you will see that is also means "magistrates" and "judges". >You say, "In fact, the 3 Gods do not 'exhibit the exclusive attributes of >God'. Regarding the T-Doctrine's comment about "same substance", is it not >obvious that Jesus has a resurrected body of flesh and bones, and the Holy >Spirit is just that....a spirit being? I have suggested that our Heavenly >Father also has a physical body, but apparently Protestants believe >otherwise. How do you see it, Perry? I covered "substance" above. However, God the Father is a Spirit (John 4:24). And, the attributes to which I refer are, again, not the physical attributes of the Godhead, but the spiritual attributes. Why do you think the Jews threatened to stone Jesus in John 10:33? They wanted to stone Jesus because "but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." The Jews realized that he equated himself with God. Jesus did not rebuke them, because he WAS equating himself to God, because he IS God. Plus, a man making himself out to be God is blasphemy, as was demonstrated by the response of the Jews. Perry _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
