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I haven't been able to follow this closely or ponder what all of you
have contributed
so please noone take offense. Isn't it true that ignorance
is also a form of knowledge?
Paul told the Galatians who had gone back to the ritual of keeping the
law
that they had been bewitched, so what is new under the sun? Jesus
said there
is just one way to the Father and that way is through Him. If there is
another
way by the law of Moses He would have mentioned it. The law is holy
but was
given as a schoolmaster to bring one to Christ and in Him we find
everything
pertaining to life and godliness.
The sabbath issue is addressed in Hebrews 4:9-11. We are to strive to
enter into
this rest - it does not refer to attending a public meeting
place on a Saturday or
a Sunday. The first principle of life in Christ is to repent from dead
works so that
we may serve the living God.
Grace and Peace,
Judy
so true.
shalom
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, 31 October, 2003
18:38
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Something To
Ponder
Slade, You are correct in saying
that doing whatever is right in our own eyes is not doing what the Lord
leads you to do. I am not saying that whatever turns you on is what the Lord
leads you to do. I am saying that if the Lord (really) leads you to do
something, it will be scripturally correct. I am not going to argue
with folks who just want to argue the same old points repeatedly. And if
they are wrong, but still think it is what the Lord leads them to do, I am
not going to be able to convince them otherwise by arguing. I am
willing to state what I believe; I am willing to listen to what other people
believe; and I am ever ready to re-evaluate my position if necessary.
However, I am not willing to listen to folks who aren’t also listening to
me. Izzy
-----Original
Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Slade
Henson
Sent:
Friday, October 31,
2003 6:34
AM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Something To
Ponder
I have an even more orthodox perspective which
causes problems (doctrinally) between me and the average Christian. I see
the whole of the commandments given to us by Moses as alive and well. There
are some we cannot do because we lost the Temple because of our
disobedience.
You said, "I say you must do whatever the
Lord leads you to do." In response to that, I give
the following verse: Judges 21:25.
Michael
D: Can you see how this conflicts with your statement that a person has to
do what God tells him (conscience) re sabbath keeping? If God never voided
the Sabbath, then our conscience would not come into the picture, would it?
It is the fact that He voided it that makes it optional/conscience-based.
Can you agree with that?
A command is optional whether it is commanded or not
because we are beings created with free will (by the way, I do not want to
create a thread discussing the philosophy of free will vs. predestination).
Some consciences have been seared against the commandments (because of
judicial interpretations of Scripture) while some consciences are swayed to
keep the commandments. In either case, conscience comes into play; it
controls wither we obey or disregard the commandment. There is nothing in
this statement I can agree with. Are you a post-modern
thinker?
----- Original Message -----
Sent:
Thursday, 30 October, 2003 16:57
Subject: RE:
[TruthTalk] Something To Ponder
Michael D, I respond to people
who say “We only need to keep 9 of the 10 Commandments” by saying that God
never cancelled Commandment #4. You need to give me the scripture showing
that the Sabbath has been voided and cancelled by the Lord if you want to
argue that point. If I am led by the Spirit to observe Sabbath, and
scripture also says I should keep Sabbath, and scripture shows that Jesus
and the disciples kept Sabbath, then what is your problem??????? AGAIN, I
say you must do whatever the Lord leads you to do. And don’t bug me
for doing what I must do. J
Izzy
-----Original
Message-----
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of michael
douglas
Sent: Thursday,
October 30, 2003 11:32 AM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Something To
Ponder
ShieldsFamily
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Michael
D wrote : As you know Iz, I do not disagree with the above statement. It's
the notion that this is a requirement for all believers that I, and
others, are trying to show is contrary to the word of
God.
Izzy
wrote:
Michael,
You have to do whatever the Holy Spirit leads you to do.
If you want
to disregard the 4th commandment, that is between the two of
you.
If you
don’t think you have replaced Sabbath rest with Sunday rest, that is up to
your own conscience.
I
must do what the Lord has put on my heart.
Obviously,
Michael, you are not heeeeeearing meeeee…….
Michael
D: Iz, I think I am understanding you, but it does seem that somehow we
are missing each other. Let me reiterate that I agree with
you that Sabbath keeping is a thing of conscience. Rest assured I
have no problem with that whatsoever.
You
have said on different occasions, though, that you believe that everyone
needs to keep the sabbath commandment along with the other nine (if I
remember correctly).
Others
on TT have emphasized this as well. That is what I am trying to indicate
is contradicted by the scripture that declares that the Holy Ghost said
don't command the Gentiles to keep the law. Can you understand the point I
am trying to make, Izzy?
Izzy
Posted:
Just
as satan has blinded the Jews to Messiah Yeshua, satan has blinded the
church to Torah’s eternal truths. Repentance for our ignorance and
unbelief is needed on both sides. Then Israel will be restored, and
Messiah will return. Maranatha!!!
Izzy
wrote: Before you have a stroke, let me re-iterate: We are not saved by
obedience to Torah. We are not saved by abstinence from sin.
We are saved only by faith in the redeeming sacrifice of Jesus! But we
express our faith through obedience to His Word, as faith without works is
dead.
The
more God leads us into a love of His Word, the more blessed we are!
Conversely, the more one distains His word, the more one expresses
unbelief/ignorance.
In
reading your many posts on this topic, you tend to fluctuate between
requiring obedience to the Sabbath commandment as part of God's word and
law, and obedience to one's conscience re the Sabbath. (See
below).
Izzy
Michael,
Those who attempt to obtain
salvation by the obeying the Law are “under the law”. I am
not. I do, however, choose to be obedient to the commandment of
resting on the Sabbath. God never
voided the Sabbath.
Michael
D: Can you see how this conflicts with your statement that a person has to
do what God tells him (conscience) re sabbath keeping? If God never voided
the Sabbath, then our conscience would not come into the picture, would
it? It is the fact that He voided it that makes it
optional/conscience-based. Can you agree with that?
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