Terry wrote: > How can I make you see what is so obvious? The flood > did not bring salvation. It brought death. It was > not meant to save . It was meant for judgment. After > Noah preached for 120 yeatrs without a convert, God > did not save the human race, He wiped them out. Many > millions of people were killed by water. Only Noah > and his kinfolk were saved, and that was not because > of the water. That was in spite of the water.
You need to teach Peter, then, because Peter said that Noah and his family were saved by water: 1 Peter 3:20, "... eight souls were saved by water." I do not believe that Peter got it wrong or misstated himself. This is a marvelous parallel once you see it. In Christ, death is brought to our entire world. We are buried with him in baptism and we die. Then we are raised to a new life. We are resurrected to a new world, so to speak. Can't you see it? To see that Noah was saved by that which destroyed the world is a wonderful revelation, and to see that it was by water, that which gives life, and by that which upholds all life, that is another wonderful insight. If you carry this further, even street preaching will make better sense to some. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: TO THE ONE WE ARE THE SAVOUR OF DEATH UNTO DEATH; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? (2 Corinthians 2:15-16 KJV) David Miller wrote: >> Do you really hold to the position that Peter is >> not talking about water baptism in this passage? >> Upon what Biblical text do you take this position? Terry wrote: > Try 1 Peter 1:18-19 The same guy you are quoting makes > it clear. YOU ARE REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD! Not the blood > plus the water. Think about it. Of course we are redeemed by the blood, but we must apply faith in Christ in order to appropriate that work in our lives. Does it offend you to say we are saved by the blood plus faith? In any case, this passage in 1 Peter 1:18-19 in no way contradicts what Peter says in 3:21, "baptism ... saves us." Furthermore, 1 Peter 1:18-19 does not indicate that 1 Peter 3:21 is not talking about water baptism. Do you really still believe that 1 Peter 3:21 is not talking about water baptism at all? Terry wrote: > Jesus could never have told Zacchaeus when he repented > "Today, salvation has come to your house". He would have > to have told him,"Zach, you are almost saved. Now get > baptized to finish the job". Don't you think Zach got baptized that day? Those who believed upon Christ were baptized. Why would Zach not have gotten baptized? What makes you so confident that Zach refused baptism? Those of us who lead new converts into baptism do not teach, "you are almost saved, now get baptized to finish the job." Rather, we teach men and women to believe upon Christ and we teach baptism as the way of professing their faith. Some people use a prayer to bring people to Christ. I use baptism because that's how Jesus taught me to do it, and that is what I read in Scriptures is the way the early believers and apostles did it. Faith naturally leads a person to want to profess faith in Christ, and they naturally look to baptism as this profession of faith. This is why the Eunuch asked Philip if he could be baptized. I have heard this before too. When the sinners believe, they naturally respond with, "I need to be baptized." Just as a man who is dirty in the natural and if he has come to your home he would want to wash and clean up, so the sinner has that natural inclination when they believe upon Christ to desire baptism. Terry wrote: > I think that when Peter used the old term "By" instead > of how we would say it,"From", it might have caused you > to put all your belief in one verse instead of looking > at all the verses that prove otherwise. I don't put all my belief in one verse. I believe them all. No offense intended, but it seems to me that you are the one who cuts out this one particular verse. I'm not sure what you mean about "by" versus "from." Are you talking about the phrase "by the resurrection"? Terry wrote: > You know, probably as well as anyone on this list, > that we are saved by faith in the shed blood of Jesus > Christ that did for us what we could never do for ourselves, > wash away our sins. Think about that brother. Amen. You know that we agree on this. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
