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David Miller wrote:
>> Verse 20 speaks of water and how it saved Noah.
>> Verse 21 speaks of baptism saving us.
Terry wrote:
> C'mon David. The water did not save Noah.
> Noah was saved FROM the water, by the same
> God that saved us. It is God, not the water,
> in every case.
I understand the perspective you want to bring out. There is nothing
wrong with you giving God the glory for the salvation, but you ought not
deny God's use of water in bringing about the salvation. The Bible very
clearly says that water saved Noah. How can I make you see what is so obvious? The flood did not bring salvation. It brought death. It was not meant to save . It was meant for judgment. After Noah preached for 120 yeatrs without a convert, God did not save the human race, He wiped them out. Many millions of people were killed by water. Only Noah and his kinfolk were saved, and that was not because of the water. That was in spite of the water.
1 Peter 3:20, "... eight souls were saved by water."
And just as clearly it says that baptism saves us.
1Pe 3:21, "... baptism doth also now save us."
David Miller wrote:
>> Clearly he is speaking of water baptism. This is
>> especially clear because he says, "not the putting
>> away of the filth ." This is what water does.
>> It cleanses the flesh.
Terry wrote:
> That is what I am trying to point out To you.
> Water washes away dirt, not sin. Only blood
> can do that.
We agree on this point about the remission of sins, but it seemed to me
that you were saying that the passage is not talking about water baptism
at all, but rather about a spiritual baptism done at some other time.
I'm trying to point out that the passage would not talk about Noah being
saved by water, and then speak about how this was representative of
baptism saving us if the baptism to which he was referring was not
"water baptism." Furthermore, his mention of "not by the putting away
of the filth of the flesh" clearly indicates that he has water baptism
in view here. None of these comments are meant to demean his point that
the saving part of water baptism is not the water of the baptism, but
what happens internally to the person who partakes of baptism by faith.
David Miller wrote:
>> Therefore, it seems irrefutable to me that he is
>> speaking very clearly.
Terry wrote:
> I take irrefutable to mean that I cannot change
> your mind, but I do humbly ask that you study it
> again.
No, I do not mean that my mind won't change, but rather I am saying that
the Bible is VERY CLEAR on this matter and it would take some very clear
and significant piece of information to change what is seemingly so
clear and incontrovertible. Do you really hold to the position that
Peter is not talking about water baptism in this passage? Upon what
Biblical text do you take this position? Try 1 Peter 1:18-19 The same guy you are quoting makes it clear. YOU ARE REDEEMED BY THE BLOOD! Not the blood plus the water.
Think about it. Jesus could never have told Zacchaeus when he repented "Today, salvation has come to your house". He would have to have told him,"Zach, you are almost saved. Now get baptized to finish the job".
I think that when Peter used the old term "By" instead of how we would say it,"From", it might have caused you to put all your belief in one verse instead of looking at all the verses that prove otherwise . You know, probably as well as anyone on this list, that we are saved by faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ that did for us what we could never do for ourselves, wash away our sins.
Think about that brother.
Terry
Peace be with you.
David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.
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"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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