Re: [TruthTalk] Baptism 4 Dead part of gospel?

[Dave]

DAVEH:  My latest comments are in RED....... Terry Clifton wrote: tc: Dave, you are an intelligent person. DAVEH:  Well, thank you Terry!  You realize of course that such a comment makes you a Mormon sympathiser to some other TTers.  ("....we have two Mormons on this site-DaveH and Blain-Be aware of seducing spirits if you stay is any length of time-when one starts considering those that serve Satan as being a "good o boy(s)" or "not such a bad person" and find yourself wanting to defend them-then the spirits have you.Also be aware of Mormon sympathizers as the root runs deep")  You have the ability to reason and to use logic.Try to put those skills to use as I take it from the top in a manner that even a blithering idiot could understand. DAVEH:  Ahhhhhhh......perhaps there is yet hope for me then, Terry.      :-)  The Greek Bible refers to the garden of Eden as Paradise.  The word Paradise is of Persian origin, meaning park. DAVEH:  In short, Terry.....that is correct.  However, to go one step further it is taken from the old Persian word pairidaeza, which can be broken down into the Greek roots peri (meaning around) and teichos (meaning a wall).  So in short, it denotes a garden with a wall. It does not mean prison!  It does not mean the grave!  It means a pleasant place, just as the garden was a pleasant place. DAVEH:  And......don't forget the wall.  In my opinion, the wall plays a very important part of the garden imagery that you may be overlooking.  People who were saved prior to the resurrection went there while awaiting the fullfillment of time. DAVEH:  From my perspective, the wall kept them there, as well as protected them from perhaps worse elements. No one went there who was not scheduled for Heaven. DAVEH:  This is where my differing definition of heaven makes discussing it with you might be a bit difficult.  This applies especially ro the theif on the cross, because my Savior has said,"I will NEVER leave you or forsake you. DAVEH:  He said that to the thief? He did not say, "I will take you half way", and He did not say, "Stay here until someone gets baptised for you".  The scriptures teach that we are to repent of our sins.  The theif did that, publicly.  The scriptures tell us to trust Jesus.  The theif did that, publicly.  The scriptures tell us to be baptised into Christ.  The theif was. DAVEH:  I assume you mean in spirit only, and not via water....?  Jesus said He would not forsake anyone who made Him Lord of their life.  He did not forsake the theif.  Jesus is in Heaven.  So is the theif. DAVEH:  IMO, you've made a leap beyond logic on that one, Terry.  But that is OK.  I appreciate you taking the time and effort to explain your belief to me. You. of course, will respectfully disagree.Terry DAVEH:  I always try to be respectful, Terry.  And I appreciate you doing likewise.  I assume you will also allow me my beliefs, as I allow yours.  In that sense, we can both have a pleasant conversation while still adhering to our respective beliefs. DAVEH:  And your position is......?  If so, then please provide multiple (I'd even be happy to see a single) Biblical evidence the thief went to heaven.  >From what Scripture tells us, it seems to explain only that the thief went to paradise.  What happened to him after that, is not recorded.  He may still reside in paradise.....no?   -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.