DAVEH: Like I said before,
I'm trying to figure out why Protestants believe as they do. I sometimes
repetitively ask questions that may seem frustrating to you because the
answers I often times receive don't really tell me
'why'.
Judy: DaveH I think you are leaving 'faith' out of the equation.
You are trying to use logic and reason and this is not the way we receive
'understanding' from the Lord.
DAVEH: You are correct,
Judy. You see, I'm not trying to understand the Lord. From my LDS
perspective, I feel comfortable in my understanding of his gospel. I am
using logic and reason in trying to understand what you and other Protestants
believe.
Judy: That's what I've been telling you all along
DaveH. We have a different Jesus and a different gospel
than
your LDS Mormon Church and to understand
what Bible believing protestants believe you would have to come by
way of faith as we all did at the beginning because If you don't
get it from Him you are on a hopeless mission. He says that we must
believe FIRST before we will KNOW whether or not the doctrine is valid.
DAVEH: I do believe, and I
know what I believe it true. That however has little to do with what I
am seeking from you and other Protestants.
Judy: I understand that you believe what you are
holding to is true, but one of us has it wrong and by the time we find out who
it will be too late to change.
Terry: I am trying to save you from
eternity in Hell.
DAVEH: I realize that.
I think if you and others in TT would not feel quite so compelled to do that,
you would not get quite so frustrated. IOW......I think your frustration
is self induced.
Judy: I would agree here - also I don't see this kind of rabid zeal as a
good testimony to the peace of God in the life of the believer.
DAVEH: This aspect of
Protestantism is simply fascinating to me. I suppose
"rabid zeal" zeal can be found
in many religious paradigms, including those outside Christendom, as is
currently being witnessed by fanatical Islamism. That doesn't interest
me nearly as much as what is found within Christianity
though.
Judy: I don't know if those were the
best adjectives, I meant something like Paul spoke of when referring to the
Jews, he said they had a 'zeal for God but not according to
knowledge'
(Romans 10:2)
DAVEH: For a religion that purportedly
preaches love of fellow man, turning the other cheek, doing unto
others......etc, how does that translate into whacko displays of unChristian
behavior?
Judy: Most likely they are in the flesh rather
than walking after the Spirit DaveH; people in the flesh are liable to do
anything and this is why we are exhorted to "prove ALL things and to hold fast
to that which is good" ....
DAVEH: If I came to your place of worship, Judy, and then
tried to humiliate you as you prepare to commune with the Lord, how would you
respond to my whacko efforts? Would I make points with you, for
denigrating that which you hold sacred? Furthermore, what would your
neighbors think of my efforts. Would I be endearing them to the 'gospel
of Christ' with my claim that I'm acting like a lunatic as a show of my
brotherly love for you?
Judy: I would think you were a 'religious nut'
and I would want to call the police and have you taken in for disturbing the
peace or whatever the ordinance is. I think the UK has a good system;
they let ppl get on soap boxes at Hyde Park and whoever chooses to listen to
them can go and stay all afternoon or all day.
DAVEH: Hmmmmmm........you are
right....I am leaving faith out of this equation. I'm purely looking at
the above irrational behavior from a logical and rational standpoint. I
see no need to let faith enter into the muck in which such protesters feel
compelled to wallow.
Judy: I've not seen or heard them but whatever
they are about (which they call shock value) is not what I would encourage
anyone to have faith in. The Holy Spirit anoints the Word of God not the
words of men and this is what we are to have our faith rooted and grounded
in.
Terry: Not only you, but those
that you influence.
DAVEH: Hmmmmmm......Does that
mean you think I'm confusing other TTers? I thought most TTers were
pretty set in their beliefs. Right off hand, I don't know of any who
have changed the way they think because of anything I've said. (Though I
would hope some have changed the way they treat other folks due to the respect
I afford them.)
Judy: Good point....
DAVEH: You are not making any
friends (except me!) in TT by such careless comments,
Judy!!! :-)
Judy: Oh well!! Have to give
credit where credit is due.... I can only
comment on what I have observed and so far I've not seen you show
disrespect.
Terry: Our Lord says that we will give an
account for every idle word we speak (or write). IF you are wrong in
your beliefs, that means every time you say something to influence another to
your way of thinking,
DAVEH: I don't think I've tried
doing that at all. I've certainly expressed my beliefs (often times when
asked), but my questions have been to learn why others believe as they do, not
to change their beliefs.
Terry: you are heaping coals on your own head, and I am causing those
coals to add up just by conversing with you.
DAVEH: IMHO, that is a silly notion. I
can't help but think that is not a theory rooted in Protestantism, let alone based in
Christianity. Judy: It's not.
DAVEH: Thank you for the affirmation,
Judy.
The idea is that when we love our enemies rather than
retaliate toward them we heap coals upon their heads and it is found in
Proverbs 25:22 and Romans 12:20. It has to do with overcoming evil with
good - which I am more and more coming to believe is an alien concept on the
TT list.
DAVEH: I discovered that
long ago. I'm not here to overcome evil, but as you know, I'm considered
to be evil due to my beliefs, religion and resistance to be easily persuaded
to change my religious affiliation and beliefs.
Judy: Sadly the majority of professing
believers don't seem to know how to separate the person from sin and so
are unable to love ppl as God loves them (and loved us all while we were yet
sinners). I would say that the system you put your trust in is evil
DaveH and only you can evaluate your personal life before God.
DAVEH: I don't want to reveal too
much about myself (weaknesses) here, but if somebody wants to change my
thinking, they'll have a lot better chance of it by being rational and
respectful in the exchanges they have with me than if they get in my face and
act like arrogant whackos.
Judy: I hear you DAVEH and I wouldn't either in
this kind of a combative atmosphere.
