Blaine writes: That would be, as I said, conjectural/philosophical, but my OPINION is that JS's murderers take responsibility not only for any sins Joseph might not have repented of, but for him NOT receiving the blessings intended for him as a result of his faithfulness in keeping the Lord's commandments and doing his will on earth--the latter the most likely, as I read the life of the prophet, Joseph Smith. The reason I would prefer the latter rather than the former is because Joseph was always too quick to repent if he did do anything wrong--which he did by his own admission many times-- one obvious example was when he allowed the transcript of the Book of Lehi to go out of his hands with Martin Harris, and was punished by losing his privileges in translating the plates for a season. That is not to say Joseph Smith was a frequent sinner--In fact I believe fully that he was fundamentally a righteous man, and deeply involved in the greatest work of God since Jesus Christ. I am impressed with the parallels between the life of the Saviour and the life of JS. One that stands out in my mind is the parallel between Mary and Joseph trying to protect the baby Jesus from murderers, and Joseph Smith and his family trying to keep the Gold Plates from falling into the hands of thieves. In both cases, I am sure they were on the constant lookout for enemies who were trying to destroy the work of God for their own selfish reasons. Eventually the enemies of both prevailed, but only in this life, and not before the work they had to do was accomplished. In both cases, the foundations they laid went on to succeed in establishing new truths for millions. That is because in both cases, God was in the work. Otherwise, it would have failed eventually, as all works of men are destined to do. Only those works which have the divine stamp of approval will continue in and after the resurrection. All else, according to the Lord's word, will eventually be thrown down.
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 18:19:18 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > So would the murderer take on joe's sins? > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Blaine wrote: I think it can safely be > assumed the Lord meant to bless > Joseph Smith with all things promised, but when one is murdered, > does > this not take matters out of the hands of the Lord? I realize this > is a > philosophical question, one that may not be answerable in light of > scripture. However, murder is such a violent act, that some have > conjectured if you die before your time by the hands of an enemy, > you are > deprived of the right to repent, and consequently the murderer takes > upon > himself responsibility for the murderee's sins, or, in the case of > Joseph > Smith, for his not receiving blessings intended for him. In one > instance > when Joseph Smith was praying about when the Saviour might appear in > his > power and glory, the Lord told him that IF he lived to be such and > such > an age (looked for this passage, but could not find it), he would > see the > face of the Saviour. This indicated that either the Lord knew when > JS > would die, and didn't want to upset him by telling him he would > eventually be murdered, or the Lord > > On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 17:32:16 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan > writes: > > God PROMISED him things IN THIS WORLD > > Yet, It was Emma that survived and was blessed. > > She even lived to see her grandkids. Joe was not long for this > > world. > > > > verse 55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my > > > servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I > > will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an hundredfold > in > > this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses > and > > lands, wives and children, and crowns of eternal lives in the > > eternal worlds. > > > > Dave wrote: > > David Miller wrote: Michael D wrote: > > > Dave H, You asked me earlier when I said J Smith was > > > proven to be a false prophet in the past on TT, what > > > was the occasion of the false prophecy. Well, it has > > > been posted on TT (Thanx David) for some time now. > > > My question is do you see this prophecy and its > > > non-fulfilment as evidence that Joseph Smith uttered > > > a false prophecy? I would appreciate a direct answer > > > if possible (yes or no). If 'no', what is your reason? > > Ditto to Michael's question. I would like to see answers from both > > > Blaine and DaveH about the D&C 132:53-55 ff passage concerning > Joe's > > > > wife being destroyed and J.S. being blessed with wives in this > life. > > DAVEH: It seems to me we discussed this previously, DavidM. I'm > > not very knowledgeable about this stuff, nor am I particularly > > motivated by some TTers' demands to answer every single question > put > > to me......so I've put answering it low on my priority list. > > I took a look at vs 55, and to me it is obvious that the > > promises made by the Lord to JS were related to the spirit world. > > As I think I've explain before, JS was sealed to many people > > (wives), and in the process the eternal family expands in an LDS > > sense. That may not make sense to most Protestant biased folks, > but > > in the LDS realm there is a connection of family relationships > that > > can be sealed in this life that will transcend death and remain in > > > the next life. I see this passage as being related to that. > > While writing this, I did a search through the old posts and > > found my original response (July 1, 2002) to your question...... > > ============== > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > I would like some feedback about what I have posted from Doctrine > > and > > Covenants 132. I did not dig this up from some book or Anti-Mormon > > > literature. The view here is completely original with me and came > > about > > by my reading of these writings. This is the second time I have > > brought > > this passage up, and both times my comments seem to be ignored. > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > .......Sorry for my tardiness, DavidM. Last night I got to this > > point > > before I packed it in. Now I'll try to address your thoughts > > regarding DC 132. > > > In your Scriptures, I have read the following: > > > > > > "... I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler > > over many > > > things; for he hath been faithful over a few things, and from > > henceforth > > > I will strengthen him. And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, > > to > > > abide and cleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But > if > > she > > > will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith > the > > Lord; > > > for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not > > > in my > > > law. But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my > > servant > > > Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will > > bless him > > > and multiply him and give unto him an hundredfold in this world, > > > of > > > fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, > wives > > and > > > children..." (Doctrine & Covenants 132:53-55). > > > > > > Now this prophecy was recorded 11 months before his death. In > > light of > > > the fact that Joseph Smith died so soon after speaking this, I > > consider > > > it very clearly as a false prophecy. In the prophecy Joseph > Smith > > > > > speaks about himself, that he will be made ruler over many > things, > > and > > > that he would be strengthened by God. This was the time when he > > > announced his candidacy for running for President of the United > > States. > > > There is no doubt in my mind that if Joseph Smith had run for > > President > > > and won, that this would have been brought forth as a true > > prophecy > > > predicting this event. The fact that he was killed instead, > > therefore, > > > causes me to conclude it as a false prophecy. > > DAVEH: I don't view this in the same way as you, DavidM. As I've > > mentioned before, the rewards we receive from the Lord are usually > > > viewed in an > > eternal perspective. I think many Christians believe the same (or > > at least > > similar) in that many Saints will suffer in mortality, but find > > their heavenly > > rewards in the life to come. LDS theology certainly takes those > > rewards to a > > much higher level of understanding, however. I think most LDS > folks > > believe > > JS's prophesied rewards were to come in heaven. > > ============== Peace be with you. > > David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you > may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you > have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
