Hey there TruthTalkers. I'm way behind on keeping up with the e-mails. There are more than 100 e-mails that are not read, so forgive me if I sound like I'm not reading everything. I know I won't be catching up today or anytime within the next few days. I'm heading out of town today to meet with some saints tonight, and tomorrow I'm going out of state for several days. I did want to raise one thing with Dean about the false teachers thread we have had.
Dean, the doctrine about present day revelation being of God is something that I absolutely know to be true. I am as sure of it as I am that Jesus Christ rose again from the dead. I have personally had many of the same experiences that those in the Bible have had, and although I have not met with God face to face like Moses did, God has spoken to me with an audible voice from heaven. I don't share that often because people think I'm delusional or a cult leader, and some just think I'm trying to lift myself up above them. They don't know why God would speak to me that way and not to them. I don't know why either, so I just don't bring it up. Nevertheless, when a person has that kind of experience, it doesn't matter what people say. They can twist the Bible all they want to argue God won't do that, but it looks really foolish to someone who has already experienced it. The debate rages mainly among those who have never experienced it. You might remember Terry's response about how the Holy Spirit revealed Christ to him. Someone can argue with him until they are blue in the face that he must have read the Bible and learned that way, or he heard people on the radio or television and it sank in that way, but if Terry knows exactly what happened to him, all their speculations mean absolutely nothing. Terry is the one who knows what happened and he is responsible to be true to God and himself concerning what happened. We should simply respect his testimony and accept it, not try and argue in a way that would be dismissive of it. The following passage is helpful to consider in what I want to say next. And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream. My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house. With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses? (Numbers 12:6-8 KJV) Now we all know that Moses was a prophet. Sometimes I think if I tell people that I am a prophet, they think that I'm trying to make myself out to be like Moses. Unfortunately, I am not a prophet like Moses at all. The revelations that I have had do not even compare to him, and the reason for it is probably because of the pride of life that is still in me. If I had that kind of revelation it would probably go to my head. In any case, the Lord in the passage above mentions a different kind of prophet, one to whom God speaks in a vision or a dream. This refers to revelation that is less direct, called "dark speeches" in the passage above. This happens regularly in my life and is much more descriptive of me. Now I do not say that I am a prophet because I have dreams and visions. Every believer can expect to have that. Rather, the Lord himself has revealed to me that being a prophet is my place in the body of Christ. This is just part of knowing myself, who I am, and what I am suppose to be doing in the body of Christ. Some are ears, some are noses, some are hands, etc., we each have a different function and it helps us to understand our function and the function of others so that we receive the diversity that God created in all of us. My being a prophet is simply a stewardship that God himself has given me. Whether or not anyone else understands it or agrees with it doesn't really matter. I have an obligation as a servant to be faithful to walk in that stewardship. I answer to God on judgment day for it, and I cannot deny what Jesus himself has said to me. To do so would be calling God a liar, and he cannot lie. In my mind, it is no different than someone who is a mechanic being expected to fix cars. This does not mean that others cannot fix cars too, but a mechanic who is not fixing cars is not really a mechanic. I hope you can understand what I'm trying to say. Anyway, the reason I am going through all this is not to prove that revelation continues to happen or that there are modern day prophets just as there were among the Christians of the New Testament. My point is to say that I KNOW these things to be true as clearly and truly as I know that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. I also am able to show from the Bible that this is true doctrine. So, given that I know these things, let's consider your approach about false teachers. We both agree that we should beware of false teachers, but you think that false teachers should be removed from the list. In particular, you and I both agree that there is false teaching in Mormonism. You reason that because of this, Mormons of the list should be removed, whereas I think they should simply be corrected by expressing the truth. Well, now consider this doctrine of revelation. From my perspective, there are others on this list teaching false doctrine about this. Should I remove them also? For example, Gary and Kevin have spoken things that I know for a fact to be contrary to the Bible and contrary to the Holy Spirit. Do I kick them off the list just because they have become false teachers in this area? If you are tracking with me on this, you will see that soon I would become a policeman of thoughts and ideas, and I would be kicking most everyone off the list who embraced some form of false teaching that was detrimental to the Kingdom of God. This is not godly in my mind at all. It is unprofitable and smacks of everything unprofitable that we saw in Roman Catholicism concerning the Inquisition, and everything unprofitable in Calvinism concerning Geneva. I will not go there because I think it is important to learn from the mistakes of history. We also need to heed the Bible's teachings on this subject. Now I realize that this is a pragmatic approach here, but you must understand that I cannot prove a negative from the Scriptures. I can only say that the Scriptures do not instruct us to excommunicate false teachers. The Scriptures instruct us to excommunicate those who sin. The admonition about false teachers is "BEWARE" of false teachers. I am not aware of anywhere in Scripture where we are admonished to excommunicate false teachers. If you know of any, please share it. Also, please consider that perhaps you do not see as much false teaching as I do, so it might be harder for you to understand my reticence to cut off false teachers. Also, I have received the left foot of fellowship more than once because I was considered a false teacher concerning the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Having been hurt by those experiences, I am shy about treating others who are expressing different viewpoints in the same manner. I acknowledge that these are personal reasons that perhaps unfavorable influence me away from excommunicating false teachers. I mention it to be honest and open with you about my thoughts and my reasons for thinking like I do. Nevertheless, despite these personal reasons, I believe what the Bible says about rebuking and convincing false teachers through our speech rather than through the arm of force (excommunication). I hope you understand my perspective here a little bit better, and I welcome hearing your thoughts about what I have shared. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." 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