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----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 11:41
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Okay, guys, here
is the chance to teach Perry some LDS.
That is about it for now. It would be neat of you
guys answered
independently and without reading each others response, if
you can. DAVEH: I have not yet seen Blaines response.
I could send this to you privately, but as you know, it would be easy to cheat
with a BCC to Blaine. So......I'll just put a flag at the top to catch
Blaines attention and trust he will not read my reply until after he responds.
DAVEH: Note to Blaine.......Please stop reading below
this point until AFTER you respond (if you wish) to Perry's questions.
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Charles Perry Locke wrote:
DavidH and Blaine (and any other LDS that may be
lurking on TT),
I have some questions on which I would like the LDS view. I
am not asking
in order to form an argument, but to understand some
questions that I cannot
answer from what little I know about LDS concept
spirit beings and
"pre-human" existence. I am hoping that you LDS
scholars DAVEH: I can't speak for Blaine, but I assure
you I'm not an LDS scholar. And, in the LDS realm, I'm pretty far down
the totem pole of scholarship. Blaine, being a retired teacher, is much
more likely to meet your needs in the scholarship field, Perry.
have some answers
for me.
Also, I am hoping that you will answer from your own
understanding, but
if you do not know feel free to consult your
bishop
DAVEH: LOL.......Forgive me for having a chuckle over that,
Perry. I've had several non LDS folks presume our Bishops are of the
scholarly bent. While there may be some somewhere who meet that
criteria, I've never met them. If anything, I'd say Bishops as a whole
are probably on the low end of the scholarship scale. Blaine may
disagree with my assessment on that though......Blaine, what say ye???
Blaine: It varies, but often
they do not take pride in being scripture freaks. They are usually solid
men, often business men, good people persons. Most are RM's, I would
think--most I ever met were, at least.
or other knowledgable
LDS acquaintances or
family members...but please point out if it is your
answer or someone
elses. DAVEH: These will be my answers.
------------------------
1. A Mormon god, who is an exalted man and has a body of flesh and bones,
at
some point in his eternal progression has one or more wives,
(probably many,
maybe hundreds or thousands) through whom he has
produced spirit children.
a. Do I have this right? DAVEH:
Maybe.....maybe not. It is pure speculation on my part, but I don't know
that it is necessary for God to be sealed to more than one wife.
b. Are his wives spirit or flesh and
bones? DAVEH: I would assume so.
c. If flesh and bones, then how do
flesh and bones parents produce spirit
children? DAVEH:
I don't know, but if I were to speculate, I would think that since they (our
Heavenly Father and Mother) are also composed spirit material, it should not
be difficult.
d. How is this reconciled with John
3:6? DAVEH: See my last comment. However, I
think you took vs 6 out of context, Perry. I see no relationship to what
Jesus was conveying there and the spiritual creation.
2. When a child is born to human parents, one of
these spirits is sent into
the child.
a. Do I have this right? DAVEH: Yes,
that is as I understand it.
b. At what point does the spirit enter
the child? DAVEH: We (LDS) know that Jesus visited Nephi
(son of Helaman) the day before his birth (3Ne 1:13), so I assume that his
spirit entered his baby body after that, perhaps at the time of his
birth. But that is speculation on my part.
c. How does the god decide which spirit
is to enter which human child? DAVEH: Again, it is
speculation on my part, but based on accounts I've read it seems that there
are family associations formed in the pre-mortal existence. Whether it
is decided by God or not, I do not know. But at this point, I don't know
that it necessarily needs to be decided by him.
(I ask because I am wondering what could the god to
send a particular spirit
into a child that he knows will be raped,
tortured and killed, or into one
who will be in abject poverty and
starve to death, v. into one who will be
the priviledged child of a
wealthy family living high on the east side.) DAVEH: It is
believed by many LDS that the importance of gaining a mortal life experience
so far overshadows the misery that some may face here, that we accept that
burden/risk willingly.
d. if a child dies immediately after
the spirit has entered it, does this
spirit get a second chance, or does
he have to go to the end of the line? DAVEH: ??? I'm
not sure what you are asking, Perry. In the child's birth process, if a
physical body is united with his spirit, that is all that is necessary.
We do not believe in reincarnation. Does that answer the question,
Perry?
3. The pupose of having spirits enter a human body
is to learn to overcome
their sin (I think I recall Blaine saying
something like this). DAVEH: I don't recall Blaine saying
such, but he may have. IF he were to say that is the only reason for
gaining a physical body, I would have to disagree. Just the way
you quoted Blaine on this sounds screwy though......."learn to overcome their
sin", so I suspect you may have either misunderstood him or misquoted him.
a. Do I have that
right? DAVEH: I should have read further before
responding.... :-)
b. I seem to recall that Blaine said
that some spirits will not get a
chance to enter a human body. Is that
right? DAVEH: One third of the hosts of heaven were
given the boot. None will inherit a physical body.
c. What happens to those spirits that
will not get a chance to enter a
human and overcome
sin? DAVEH: They were followers of Lucifer and were booted
out of heaven. They will exist in hell (LDS definition---so far from the
Lord, the light of Christ will not shine there, even dimly) and not have the
opportunity to progress eternally.
Are they on the same footing, and do they have the
same opportunities that a spirit that entered a human body
has? DAVEH: No.....they will not have the same
opportunities. Their eternal progression has been damned (LDS
definition---stopped).
------------------------------------
That is about it for now. It would be neat of you guys answered
independently and without reading each others response, if you
can. DAVEH: I have not yet seen Blaines response.
I could send this to you privately, but as you know, it would be easy to cheat
with a BCC to Blaine. So......I'll just put a flag at the top to catch
Blaines attention and trust he will not read my reply until after he responds.
Can you
do that? If you are busy feel free to
take the time you need to do it...my
term paper is not due for two weeks
(LOL). Just joking. There is no term
paper.
Thanks, DAVEH: You are welcome, Perry.
Perry
-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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