[TruthTalk] Covenant versus Contract

[Jonathan Hughes]

Well I promised myself I wouldn’t write any more posts until I had finished writing an exam next Monday but I wanted to put one small one forward.  Blaine and John’s comments below (thank you gentlemen) highlight an area that I have had a lot of change in lately.  Basically it comes down to figuring out whether God’s relationship with me (and all TT members) is a covenantal relationship or a contractual relationship.  Let’s have a discussion of the difference(s) between covenant and contract.  I would suggest beginning with a simple definition (marriage is an example of covenant, business agreement an example of a contract) and then go to scripture (as Blaine is doing below) to determine which type of relationship God has with us.  To tip my hand I come in fully on the covenant side.  I have come to see that God always begins with grace, then gives law, and then the consequences.  In other words, I am the Father of Abraham etc. (grace), Follow my commandments (law) and you will be blessed (consequences).  If that order is misconstrued or changed around I think one runs into a lot of trouble.  How would the verse Blaine mentions below work out?  Is it an example of works being a prerequisite for saving grace?  One may want to work out what to do with all the ‘Ifs’ that are often placed in verses dealing with covenant (for example, If you follow my commandments I shall bless you).  Do they make them into contracts or are they descriptive ifs, prescriptive ifs etc.?  This is part where I am still fuzzy but I’ll get there.  And finally I would like to discuss how our Christian lives would be different if we realized God’s relationship with us was one of covenant instead of contract.  This will lead us into discussing Christ’s High priesthood and His vicarious humanity.  I am getting excited just thinking about where we could go with all this.  Thank you God!  Let’s work it out.   Now I may not be able to post much until next Monday or Tuesday so please do not be suspicious if I do not reply to any responses right away.  I cannot stress how important I think it is to deeply understand the difference between a Covenant God and a Contract God.  May the Spirit of God lead us in this discussion.   Jonathan   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Blaine Borrowman Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Men's Doctrines   Blaine:  "Greater love hath no man than this--that he give his life for his friends.  You are my friends if you Keep My Commandments."  I did not bother to look this scripture up, what I have written I wrote from memory.  It is basically accurate, and it is a fundamental truth.  You will only be saved if you are willing to keep his commandments--although works alone will not save you, through both works AND his saving grace--his mercy--one MAY repent and start from scratch, and thereby be saved.  Otherwise, the justice of God will bind you to your sins, and you will have to pay for them yourself before you may come out from that prison ruled over by Satan.  Jesus alone has the keys to that prison, and only he stands at the gate to Heaven--he employs no servant there.  He will not let just anybody through, for strait is the gate, and narrow the way, and FEW there be that find it.  This scripture tells us not everyone that saith "Lord, Lord," will be admitted--just a "few." ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:59 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Men's Doctrines   In a message dated 3/29/2004 6:10:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It is grace verses works, whether Mormon, Baptist, Catholic or whatever. **Red flag; doctrine of men.  Grace is no covering for sin and it is only accessed by faith...(Romans 5:2) and faith is dead without corresponding actions (Jame 2:17) Just for the record, Blaine  --  God's grace even saves a works-salvantionist.  Christ died for us while we were yet sinners.  A works-salvationist would say "Well, duh." As one who is aware of his/her continued sinful self (Romans  3:23, IJo 1:8 etc), this statement "Christ died for us while we yet sinners" must have some relevance other than the obvious  --  I mean all sacrifice for sin is created for those who are "yet sinners."  What is significant about this statement is the fact that the sacrifice is once and for all time  --  that the  flow of the blood is eternal and continual, that our sins are remembered NO MORE.   The problem for the sinner is not sin,  it is the decision to avoid God and, hence, His solution.   The problem is already solved.   That is why the gentile (Romans 2) who has no knowledge of God or Christ but does by nature the things of the law can be saved  --  because the sacrifice was made "while we were yet sinners." Does that make sense to you, Blaine?  And, are we on the same page on this? John Smithson