RE: [TruthTalk] Calvin versus Calvinism - (Was Christian Perfection)

[Jonathan Hughes]

Hi all,   Just a short note.  It seems that someone has unsubscribed me (or else one is automatically unsubscribed if one does not participate for 2 weeks).  Alas, I am back.   Re the post below.  There are a lot of books that argue against Calvinism.  Dave Hunt’s would be considered one of the weakest.  That being said I am impressed that you actually recommended a book other than the bible (albeit one you have not read yourself).  This is the first time that I have seen in the two months that you have done this. Most times you rail against others for doing any reading outside of scripture (as you do against Calvin below).  It never ceases to amaze me how many people put down Calvin without having ever read one word of what he actually wrote and base their opinions on hearsay.  There is a pattern here that I see.  You have put Torrance, Polanyi, Newbigin and Calvin down one or more times in the last two months even though you have read hardly anything they have written.  On top of that you continue to judge them (example below: “hesitate to call some of his actions those of a man of God”.  I guess that would take care of most bible characters as well.)  Furthermore, basing ones opinion on doctrines promoted by Calvin’s followers instead of Calvin himself is simply wrong and unfair to Calvin.  There are large differences between Calvin and Calvinism (which you almost acknowledge below).  Even if you do not agree with a teaching (such as perseverance of the saints or predestination) one must ask why Calvin chose to develop it and why others made it the backbone of their own theologies.  This would be a great little study to take upon yourself.  Lending a sympathetic ear can help one learn immeasurably.  Would you believe that God could teach you through Torrance, Polanyi, Newbigin, Calvin et al.?   Judy, what books outside of scripture have you read that you would recommend?  I love reading lists and greatly enjoy learning which books inspire people, or have helped to edify their lives.  Please share some from your life.   Jonathan   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Judy Taylor Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 10:05 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [TruthTalk] Christian Perfection   Hi Lance, I've never waded through Calvin's Institue & Commentaries myself but I have seen the fruit of his teachings which are not in line with God's Word. Predestination and "once saved always saved"; I have been told that the latter is not pure Calvinism but it is rooted in his teachings. God is the one who will judge him as a person but I would hesitate to call some of his actions those of "a man of God" - do you have a book called "What Love is This?" by Dave Hunt in your bookstore?  I've not read this one either but it may be a good balance for Calvin's "Institutes" - As for me, I prefer to stay with God's Word if this is the standard by which we must evaluate everyone else's words Shalom .... judyt     From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Judy: "Calvinistic POV" I read Calvin (Institute & Commentaries) & I appreciate Calvin. He is, I believe, one of Christianity's important men of God. Have you read him? Do you "know" the content of his work? If you do please substantiate your apparent dislike of him/his work. If you don't then please refrain from the "shots". Blessings, Lance   From: Judy Taylor Davidm and I have our differences in other areas but anybody who reads the Bible should be familiar with what he is saying about sanctification/holiness.  Why are people with the Calvinistic POV always taking this subject to the other extreme totally as in the Subject line of this thread?    We are all in the process of working out our own salvation with fear and trembling - and when this is so in a person's life, the believer will not indulge in the practice or habit of sin.  Makes sense to me because we are instructed to "follow peace with all men and holiness without which no man will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) judyt     From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Confusion? Yes & no. David: I believe that some thought that this was exactly where you were going in your 1 John discussions. Blessings, Lance   From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> John wrote: I do not understand your claim to sinlessness as being a statement that you are better than others. My claim to sinlessness?  What are you talking about?  When did I ever claim to be sinless?  I think you are confusing my theology with somebody else's theology. Peace be with you. David Miller, Beverly Hills, Florida.