Both were taught by Jesus. I don't His find
truth to be at odds at all. God is loving but he is also holy and
perfectly just. Noone will spend an eternity in torment who has not personally
chosen this end. One could
say that the parable of the prodigal son illustrates
the moral principle of repentance before acceptance by
a Holy God and how doing one's own thing causes
separation and what does the parable of Lazarus and
the rich man teach? That there are different destinations for the
righteous dead and the unrighteous dead? Now
whether or not all of Mr. Landstrom's notes on hell
are valid this parable taught by Jesus is in and of itself
important. The rich man was miserable enough to
want to go and warn his brothers not to come there.
daveh: From what I've learned previously in TT, anybody who
dies without believing in Jesus is condemned to the lake of fire. (I
assume you agree???) Yet there are literally
billions who have lived and died without even hearing the name of Jesus, let
alone hearing the gospel. So......if they (through no fault of their own) don't believe in Jesus and end up
being eternally tortured in the lake of fire......what commentary does that
speak of a loving God? Or......do you believe that they will be given
the chance to believe in Jesus after their death? I think virtually all
I've chatted with about this deny this possibility though.
judyt: It is appointed unto men once to die and after
this the judgment (Hebrews 9:27); the Church has been given the great
commission (see Matthew 28:19,20) and Romans 1 addresses this also.
Jesus created the worlds and everything is held together "by the word of His
power" which means he also created us and
Romans 1:20 tells us that "From the creation of the
world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature,
have been clearly seen, being understood through what He has made. As a result
people are without excuse..."
daveh: My personal world is immersed in Jesus. However, I can
think of many instances of people(s) who could/would not have heard of
him.
judyt: Your Jesus is not the Creator of the worlds
Daveh, I'm not an expert on Mormonism but from what I do understand your
church teaches he is less than what the scriptures teach, so this is "another
gospel" and
a "different Jesus".
daveh: The problem with that is it is
questionable as to how many actually heard the truth. If you and
I knocked up a non Christians door in a proselytizing effort, and you first
taught him what you know as the gospel, and then I taught him my perspective
of the gospel.......and then he chose to believe mine---you would assume rejected the truth, while I would assume just the
opposite.
judyt: Do you know the origin of the word "occult"
Daveh? It has it's origin is in astrology as when for instance
a man sees a magnificently bright star through his telescope and tells
his friend "come here, look at this" but when the
friend puts his eye to the lense a comet moves in front of the star, covering
and posing
as the real so that it's light is dimmed and the friend's reaction is "what's so
great about that?" There are
many occult gospels out there.
daveh: So it seems that there are many versions of the truth right here in TT. Imagine a non Christian
viewing the gospel being preached by underwear waving protesters. Would
they run to embrace that truth, or would they run
from it. And if they did find that form of truth to be repulsive, do you think God is going to chuck
them into the lake of fire for not accepting such a negative presentation of
the gospel?
judyt: I don't agree with the method or the message
of many street preachers and to be honest I would not have been drawn to their
message or their persons in many cases but I can rejoice in that Christ is
named..
As for their end, I am not the judge; they will be
judged by the words Christ spoke John 12:48, just like the rest of
us.
daveh: Do you suppose the wrath of God
might possibly refer punishments of mortality, rather than punishments that
extend beyond the grave? I've not done a study of it, but it sure seems
to me that God has shown his wrath to mortals when they happen to be engaged
in efforts to thwart the gospel. One of these days (if I ever find
the time), I'll have to see what relation there is between the wrath of God and hell. Perhaps you already know,
and can quote some passages that connect the two?
judyt: My understanding is that it happens while we
live and the wicked are reserved for the day of destruction. God disciplines
those he loves and he uses the instruments of his wrath to do this. Moses in
Psalm 90:9 writes that "all our days are passed away in thy wrath, we spend
our years as a tale that is told".
Of course, we are living in a new day but God's
standards have not changed.
daveh: Without some negative result, what motivation would
Christians have to seek the truth? Jesus told us the truth would set us
free. Free from what, if misconceptive (can't think of the proper word
for that one!) Christians can be saved?
