[TruthTalk] (Slade) God's Way and Man's Way

[Judy Taylor]

From: "Slade Henson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> You are correct in saying that Yeshua broke the partition down, but those who taught you your doctrine rebuilt it by stating things like "they are God's Old Covenant people and the New Testament is God's New Covenant people."   jt: No man 'taught' me this doctrine Slade, it is what the scriptures teach and I see it in the Bible. God has always been a 'Covenant' God  from Abraham on and He reveals Himself to His people who are always His Covenant people.   There is a very wide berth between my doctrine and yours and as things sit, there is no remedy in sight. While the doctrine you've been taught disbands with the Levitical System, the earthly Tabernacle, Israel (in favor of the Church), and the dietary laws, my doctrine does none of this... yet we use the same texts. It's really quite amazing to me. In the doctrine I've learned, nothing in Torah has been disbanded. I have noticed that certain commandments are made stricter on occasion, or they are made more finite.   jt: How can this be Slade?  The purpose of the Law was basically to teach people God's holiness and because of this their need for a Daysman/Redeemer who is Christ.   Since we are on the topic of Levites, let me use that as an example: Originally, the heads of families would bring Korbanot (sacrificial gifts to God) -- as we see in the history of Cain and Abel. The men brought gifts (both gifts were equally valid in Torah, but Cain's sacrifice was not done with a circumcised heart).   jt: Not sure about the above - what kind of an offering was it?  There must be the shedding of blood to atone for sin. Vegetables would not be accepted for that.   Cain killed his brother and was worried that his brothers descendants (children and possible grandchildren and great grandchildren) would kill him.   jt: Why was he worried about that?  God forbid his murder but said he would always be a wanderer with no peace.   At some point, the bringing of Korbanot fell on the firstborn son who also received the double portion of inheritance. When YHVH redeemed the people of Israel from Egypt, he claimed the firstborn for Himself. When the Levites helped Moshe after the Golden Calf, YHVH took the whole tribe of Levi instead of each firstborn son and He gave them the privilege to bring korbanot. From that tribe, the priestly caste came and from the leader of the priests, came the inherited position of High Priest. Yeshua, on the merit of his death, burial, and resurrection, took over the intercessor position in the order of Malki-Tzedek... an everlasting position because He will never die. (Yeshua may also be of the priestly caste as well: look at his mother and her relationship with the priest Zecharyah -- who had to marry in his tribe -- in the book of Luke.)   jt: Yes Jesus is of the order of Melchizidec which is an order that is not 'traditional' it just always was. Jesus has always been.  Read in Hebrews 7: "this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated "king of righteousness" and then also king of Salem meaning "king of peace" without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually."   Therefore, the function provided by the Levites is a function that continued to exist until the Romans destroyed the Temple. The Levites have no Temple Function right now, but they have other factions in Torah that would serve the community of God very well.   jt: If the functions at Herod's temple did exist until AD70 it was because of the blindness God allowed to come upon the Jews until the fulness of the gentiles had come to the knowledge of Christ. (see Romans 10,11). There is no sacrifice happening in Jerusalem today.   As far as your "church," please understand much of the New Testament was written to the Israelite people. Read the first new verses of each book and determine where and to whom it went. Then, remember that the letters that Paul sent out were given "to the Jew first and then to the Gentile." Every reference to "Church" is translated from the Greek word "Ekklesia," the same word used in the LXX for the congregation of non-apostate Israel (aka: the remnant of believing Israel).   jt: I understand that the Jews were given the oracles of God and I value both them and their contribution; Jesus said He was sent to the lost sheep of the 'house of Israel' and they are the ones to whom He went with the message of His Kingdom.  However, the Jews as a nation rejected Him.  The apostles Peter and Paul went to the 'circumcision' first but they had a lot of trouble with riots, insurrections, etc. and by the end of the book of Acts Paul had wiped his hands of them and said he was going to the gentiles who would hear him (see Acts 28:26,27) Paul repeated the prophecy of Isaiah 9:6 to the Jews which Jesus also reminded them of in Matthew 13:14.  As a nation the Jews still do not receive Jesus as their Messiah.   The doctrine you embrace appears to be one that bring Jews into the "Church," whereas Biblical Doctrine is one that brings the Gentile into Israel. All Torah is for Israel, and if Torah is not for you, then you are not of Israel and you are not one of God's people. Both Old and New Testament embraces this concept. Both Hebrews and Jeremiah tells us that the New/Renewed Covenant is for Israel.   jt: Slade God's Covenant people are God's people, whether Israel or the Church.  Today God's Covenant is with the Lord Jesus Christ who is a Jew if you want to be technical about it - and we get in on it.  There is NO OTHER way to the Father and NO OTHER way to heaven.  HE IS the ONLY way.   -- slade   P.S. I'm not one to take offense to people's words (generally). I was not offended by anything you wrote to me. I am glad, however, that a Biblical topic has returned to the table.   jt: I'm glad about this also Slade, and I thank you for getting us back on track.  judyt       From: "Slade Henson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> A problem I see again and again is that the whole of Jewry is lumped together and a blanket statement is made and thrust upon the whole. Stop doing that.   jt: I don't see the Old Testament as Jewry Slade. To me they are God's Old Covenant people and the New Testament is God's New Covenant people - either way they are God's Covenant people and His Promises are for them all. Didn't Jesus break down the partition?   There are elements within the Israelite camp, within Jewry, and within Christianity who have failed. Has either three groups failed completely? No. I have not forgotten the "If" and the "Then" as you accuse; I am painfully aware of them  I chose not to detract from the main point as I am now doing.   jt: Did not mean to accuse you Slade, just pointing it out, sorry that you appear to have received it as an accusation.   To accuse Korach of not knowing God's way is a ruthless argument based on falsehood. He knew God's way... he tried exploiting it for his own selfish gain.   jt: If he knew God's way then he was an 'idiot' (don't you believe Psalm 103:7?) What did he hope to gain? This was a pointless anarchy. Korah was deceived by the "accuser" Look at what was coming out of his mouth toward Moses and Aaron - accusation.  What do you believe he hoped to gain?    Also, it's your OPINION that the priesthood was nailed to the cross... and certainly not my belief. I will agree that Yeshua is King [of kings], but he is HIGH priest and prophet. To say "priesthood" is nailed to the cross, you must also nail "prophet" there as well in order to continue your logical fallacy.   jt: No you just nail there what the scripture teaches us that God nailed there. I understand Jesus is presently our Prophet, Priest, and King - What was nailed to the cross at Calvary is the whole Levitical System and this is explained in Hebrews Chapters 7, 8, and 9.   Now you said, "the Church He is building is to be the nation prophesied in Exodus 19:5,6 with the same conditions." however, I don't think you realize that this was spoken to the nation of Israel and all that, apparently, was "nailed to the cross" as well?   jt: I understand who it was spoken to Slade. Every prophecy spoken to God's Old Covenant People has not yet come to pass although many of them have and every prophecy God spoke through the Old Covenant prophets was not nailed to the cross, only the earthly tabernacle along with the Levitical Priesthood.    After all, have you said, "we will do everything the LORD has said (Exodus 19:8)?" If so, I'm sure you keep Biblically kosher, follow all cleanliness laws of the ordinary individual, keep the festival calendar dates, etc. If not, then none of this applies to you and you stand outside this promise.   jt: What did God tell Peter before he went to the house of Cornelius?  "Do not call unclean what God has cleansed" I'm washed by the water of the Word and cleansed by the Blood of the Covenant.  The fact that the Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is to be a nation of Kings and Priests is written about in Revelation 1:6, Revelation 5:10, 1 Peter 2:5, and 1 Peter 2:9.   <snip>   God is funny about His people doing things His way... and this is the lesson, lest we get off on doing our own thing in His name.