RE: [TruthTalk] Christians and violence

[Jonathan Hughes]

Hi Judy,   You have probably made the following comment about 7 or 8 times since I have been on TruthTalk:  "By the second century the early church was off into heresy."  Could you please qualify this with full text references to second century heresies that you are concerned with?  I would like to see what you come up with.   And to answer your question to Bill, yes I do see the image of Christ all over the place in the orders you mention.  You seem to be completely ignorant of the fact that you would not be "Judy the Christian" as you are without the church fathers and the orders that developed throughout our history.  The debt you owe them is immeasurable.  The eyes you read scripture with every day are not fresh eyes (none of us has fresh eyes); rather, they are eyes that have learned both wrongly and rightly from what has gone on before.  Surely you do not believe that your faith has been created in a vacuum?  It appears that you actually believe that you would believe exactly as you do if you were the first person to pick up the Bible and allow the Holy Spirit to speak through its words.  What you believe is a mixture of the Holy Spirit and two thousand years of tradition and 'readings' with favour given to some strands over others.   Jonathan   -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 12:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christians and violence     By the second century the early church was off into heresy and when Constantine tried to blend church with state it made things much worse. Paul exhorts his hearers to obey those who have been given Governmental authority and it appears (at least once) that he valued and used his Roman citizenship to get himself out of trouble.   Passivism early on led to monks, religious orders, quietism, pietism etc. Do you see the "image of Christ" in any of them Bill?