[TruthTalk] Christians and violence

[Judy Taylor]

From: "Jonathan Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> And to answer your question to Bill, yes I do see the image of Christ all over the place in the orders you mention.    jt: To each his own Jonathan, I guess this is the Christ you will be conformed to the image of then.   You seem to be completely ignorant of the fact that you would not be "Judy the Christian" as you are without the church fathers and the orders that developed throughout our history.    jt: I hope to stay ignorant then. I am what I am by the grace of God - it is He and He alone through His Word who changed me. I do not read the Church Fathers or RCC tradition which comes from their writings.   The debt you owe them is immeasurable.  The eyes you read scripture with every day are not fresh eyes (none of us has fresh eyes); rather, they are eyes that have learned both wrongly and rightly from what has gone on before.  Surely you do not believe that your faith has been created in a vacuum?    jt: My faith is a supernatural phenomenon Jonathan. It is spiritual. I have always been interested in history and was raised in a church where I learned of a historical Jesus but this did not light the fire of faith in my heart. It was not until I began to study His Word and submit myself to same that things began to change in my heart and life.  My testimony is Jesus.   It appears that you actually believe that you would believe exactly as you do if you were the first person to pick up the Bible and allow the Holy Spirit to speak through its words.  What you believe is a mixture of the Holy Spirit and two thousand years of tradition and 'readings' with favour given to some strands over others.   jt: You may speak for yourself Jonathan - you are presumptuous to say the least to think that you can speak for me.  My experience apparently is not yours.  You can testify to your own belief or unbelief only.   Judyt   -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2004 12:36 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christians and violence     By the second century the early church was off into heresy and when Constantine tried to blend church with state it made things much worse. Paul exhorts his hearers to obey those who have been given Governmental authority and it appears (at least once) that he valued and used his Roman citizenship to get himself out of trouble.   Passivism early on led to monks, religious orders, quietism, pietism etc. Do you see the "image of Christ" in any of them Bill?