From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated 8/16/2004 5:23:29 AM Pacific
Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Me again John,
I'm not sure what kind of problems you see with the teaching of the "fall" as it pertains to human nature bit I suspect your vision may be clouded by at least a little TFT. Suffice it to say that the fall was not theological, it was spiritual and so is our redemption in Christ. The first Adam did not passively fall. He made a choice which was pro-active. Yes Jesus became a sacrifice for sin. He paid the price but Covenant benefits do not fall on us by osmosis because we are born into them or fall into them. Calvin did Christendom a great disservice. Again the scripture you are looking for is Genesis 1:26 .... judyt
Me again John,
I'm not sure what kind of problems you see with the teaching of the "fall" as it pertains to human nature bit I suspect your vision may be clouded by at least a little TFT. Suffice it to say that the fall was not theological, it was spiritual and so is our redemption in Christ. The first Adam did not passively fall. He made a choice which was pro-active. Yes Jesus became a sacrifice for sin. He paid the price but Covenant benefits do not fall on us by osmosis because we are born into them or fall into them. Calvin did Christendom a great disservice. Again the scripture you are looking for is Genesis 1:26 .... judyt
Actually, I think that TFT would not agree with my thinking at all. And I am not sure what I think here. But here is the problem as I see it. Adam and Eve are created flesh and blood -- they were not spirit beings.
jt: They were primarily
spirit because they were made "in the image of God" who is Spirit (John 4:24),
but God did make them living souls. The first Adam was spirit, soul, and
body.
I am assuming they had a soul because I believe such is a part of our
creation. And I know that flesh and blood will not inherit the
Kingdom of Heaven. I know they had the capacity to sin, the same potential
I have. And, right now, I am believing that the Tree of Life, in the
garden, would have given them eternal spiritual life. What are the
seciptures that defeat or explain these questions.
jt: Yes they had the
capacity to make choices, they could choose to agree with God and obey Him or
the could choose (as they did) to embrace the lie and act upon it. Also
there were two trees in the garden - they ate from the wrong one and the tree
they joined themselves to ministered spiritual death.
I will add, that if the above is true, then our creation is not complete until we enter the "pearly gates." If the above is true, I would be arguing that mankind has traversed the journey we call history, coming to knowledged of Christ, for the purpose of spiritual and eternal life -- that God could not make creatures such as ourselves without completing the process in the sacrificial offering of Himself in Christ. I hope I am making myself clear.
I will add, that if the above is true, then our creation is not complete until we enter the "pearly gates." If the above is true, I would be arguing that mankind has traversed the journey we call history, coming to knowledged of Christ, for the purpose of spiritual and eternal life -- that God could not make creatures such as ourselves without completing the process in the sacrificial offering of Himself in Christ. I hope I am making myself clear.
jt: I am not
understanding John. Creation was complete when God said "It was good" but
that creation is now fallen in the first Adam. Jesus came to introduce a "New
Creation" which is His Body the Church. The first Adam was made a living
soul, the second Adam is a life-giving Spirit (1 Cor 15:45)
My qyuestioning would not lessen the biblical impact of anything but would explain why we as humans have to enter the process of salvation. Christ's death reached back to all those who had gone before and brought them to the same place we find ourselves. I don' thave the scripture for that but it is there somewhere.
jt: The above is TFT's
"incarnational teaching" Yes Jesus is the sacrifice for all time but God
is a Covenant God and Jesus is given as a Covenant to the people. Covenant
agreements involve the fidelity both parties and we enter the process of
salvation so that we might overcome as He overcame. Yes it is all His grace, and
it is all His power - but we have our part in the process if we have repented
from dead works so that we may serve the Living God. I'm not satisfied
with a "form of godliness" are you?.
Anyway -- got to get back to work. Good to hear that everyone is safe.
John
Anyway -- got to get back to work. Good to hear that everyone is safe.
John
