Well now, you say that Slade and I are not
plain spoken, I disagree. The fact that Slade and I use Hebrew is
not the issue here! We always provide the english meanings. THAT my
dear lady IS becoming all things to all people!
jt: Beg to differ Jeff dear. I've
not had either of you explain them other than with another Hebrew word. I've
had to do a Google search more than once to try and find out what you're
talking about. That's how it took me so long to figure out that you were
still under the law.
The mere fact that we are more comfortable with
Hebrew does not negate the message or our way of conveying it. In fact, the
way I see it, by using the Hebrew (along with english translations) is a way
of educating people. That is not a Greek versus Hebrew mindset
issue. The issue is that few westerners know or understand the
Semitic way of thought. If they did many people would see scripture in a
whole new light.
jt: Maybe so Jeff, I wouldn't know about
that; but I can tell you that the Holy Spirit is able to
communicate
with or without Greek and Hebrew to
those with a heart toward God.
The language one reads scripture in is up
to the readers ability to read fluently in any language. However, without some
background in the culture in which scripture came about, most people miss the
beauty, the humor, the very life of scripture. Sure many can and are
saved without this background information, but they all remain Babies in the
Lord. What many think of as meat is in reality pablum. That is barely
one small step up from milk.
But you haven't graduated to meat yet! Not a
problem, in the world to come, you will all be consuming meat. And WE will all
be begging each others forgiveness over issues that we fail to understand
today.
jt: We won't need meat in the world to
come Jeff, because then we will "know all things" We need it now because
without it we will not ever do the works of Jesus which is the mission of the
church.
In some respects I sense a
bit of hostility over scholarship (education) from some people.
This is a tragedy! Something that many of you will fail to understand, in the
semitic mindset/worldview, etc. study is one of the highest forms of
worship. Paul told Timothy to "Study to show yourself
approved...". But what did Timothy have to study? It wasn't
the Newer Testament. Nor was Paul telling him to study Plato or Socrates,
etc. It was the Older Testament along with the teaching of his
Rabbi.
jt: How do you know Timothy had a
Rabbi? I understand his father was Greek and it was his mother and
grandmother who tutuored him in the Word of God but I can agree that it was
the OT scripture the Law, the Psalms and the Prophets.
What did his Rabbi teach? Torah in the plain
language of the day. Using exegetical and hermeunetical methods that
made the teaching fuller, easier to understand. It seems to me that
preachers today still attempt to use these methods! You say that Paul had a better education
"after the flesh..." than anyone. Well, Paul studied at the feet of
Gamaliel, I am sure that his studies were not after the flesh as
you have misconstrued the meaning of this
passage. Jeff
jt: I'm just saying what he says
about it Jeff. He counted it all dung which is a pretty strong term
...
"For we are the circumcision, which
worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh"
(then Paul goes on to list his fleshly achievements)
"Though I might also have confidence in
the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in
the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the
tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is
in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted
loss for Christ. Yea, doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the
excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord; for whom I have suffered
the loss of all things and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, and
be found in him, not having mine own righteousness which is of the law, but
that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God
by faith, tht I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the
fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death." (Phil
3:3-10)
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, October 31, 2004
8:23
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Grammar &
Worldview vs. The Spirit
You
are not 'plain spoken' Slade. You and Jeff use a lot of foreign words,
either Hebrew or Yiddish. What happened to becoming all things to all men
that you might win some. At least this is what Paul did and he probably
had a better education (after the flesh and this is what he calls it) than
anyone.
