I do not believe that his (Jesus') meaning and the two of you (David (?) and Izzie) are the same meaning. ... It's possible therefore, that you've miscontrued Jesus' meaning, eh?
Possible, but not likely considering that you have not offered any serious alternative meanings. This is the first time you have stated that you do not believe that what Jesus meant is what Izzy and I understand him to mean.
What do you think Jesus meant by saying that Judas is lost?
What do you think Jesus meant by calling him the son of perdition?
For those interested in Greek analysis:
The Greek word for "lost" here is "apoleia." It occurs 21 times in the New Testament and is translated as perdition, destruction, waste, damnable, damnation, die, perish, pernicious, and ways.
Thayer defines it as follows: 1) destroying, utter destruction 1a) of vessels 2) a perishing, ruin, destruction 2a) of money 2b) the destruction which consists of eternal misery in hell
Strong defines it as follows:
From a presumed derivative of G622; ruin or loss (physical, spiritual oreternal): - damnable (-nation), destruction, die, perdition, X perish, pernicious ways, waste.
Following are some verses that use this word "apoleia":
Hebrews 10:39
(39) But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition [apoleia]; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
2 Peter 3:7
(7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition [apoleia] of ungodly men.
Revelation 17:8
(8) The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition [apoleia]: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Matthew 7:13
(13) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction [apoleia], and many there be which go in thereat:
Romans 9:22-23
(22) What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction [apoleia]:
(23) And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Philippians 3:18-19
(18) (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
(19) Whose end is destruction [apoleia], whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
2 Peter 2:3
(3) And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation [apoleia] slumbereth not.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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