Re: [TruthTalk] The Right Way To Get To The Truth

[Judy Taylor]

ï   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Jt:I DO NOT HAVE THE WHOLE WORLD SAVED INCLUDING THE DEVIL!   As to the matter of John's heart, you would appear to be the only one who has difficulty discerning this man's love for Jeshua.    jt: Looks like my part of this was lost in cyberspace - Lance aren't you the one who teaches that the whole cosmos (which must include Satan since he was present at Calvary) was included in the incarnation?  As for John's heart and love for Jesus.  The Lord Himself defines what this consists of when He says "If you love me you will DO what I say" I have no idea what John DOES in his personal life and neither do you. All we can know is what he says by way of his keyboard. [EMAIL PROTECTED]> This response exemplifies the entire 'in the flat/in depth' hermeneutic. Judy knows who you are John, in Christ, yet she chooses to argue over your choice of words describing a reality you have in common with all believers. Anytime we encounter a believer from any other Christian Tradition we ought to be listening 'through' their vocabulary to their heart. That's where God is looking and, so should we. What a waste of time so many of these 'quibbles' are! They are both silly and, foolish.   jt: Lance, when are you going to come down from your lofty perch up there with Hermes and the rest of the Greek gods and begin to deal with reality? I'm talking about the 'wisdom of God' and you are way out there with some 'hermeneutic' or other. Fact is a person's heart is exposed BY rather than IN SPITE OF the words that they speak ... So is it any wonder you have the whole world saved including the devil.   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a message dated 12/17/2004 9:16:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Everyone lives what they really believe. Izzy John responds: A really ridiculous statement.   "Lord,I believe, help me in my unbelief."  J   jt: How is this 'ridiculous?' God's wisdom tells us that we not only live them we speak them also for "Out of the abundance that fills the heart, the mouth speaks" so it is no use proclaiming one thing publicly and speaking something else in private. So you donât live your beliefs? Izzy John: Not always and neither do you.    Neither does the addicted, lost in his habit and helpless to be what he really wants to be;  neither the confused and beleaguered wife who compromises to  save the marriage;  or the young black boy with absolutely no guidance, lost in a sea of racial regrets who cries in private at what he sees as his only choices; or the gay and homely blade who is so taken by the disappointment of his parents (in all facets of his life) that, in spite of what he believes,   his need for acceptance prevails.  None of this rises to the level of reasoned excuse for failure.   But the addicted "really wants" and thus, believes in what is noble and right; the beleaguered wife "compromises" and thus acknowledges what she believes to be right;  the black boy who secretly weeps lives a life that trumps what he knows is right (thus the tears);  and the gay and lonely son who is driven by guilt because, and only because, he "knows" what he believes but is lost without a teacher (lost does not mean lost, in this case).   Tears, guilt, compromise, restless addictions are all testaments to the possession of truth.    It is when we have so surrendered to the flesh that we feel no guilt, shed no tears, are aware of no compromise, and rejoice in our addictions that we are truly lost -- given over to the flesh.   jt: Maybe we should have first defined what it means to "believe" Faith and belief in His Word are synonamous in God's economy - but this has nothing to do with wants and or needs.  What you describe above is belief/faith in the devil's lies John. So people often do not live as they believe, Linda.     jt: Oh but they do - God's Word says "according to your faith so be it unto you"  If the people above first believed and then took hold of the power that proceeds from the cross, they could be free of confusion, addiction, and perversion because the truth acted upon makes us free.   And there are times when we meet these people,  speak what God would have us to say and it strikes at the heart of who they really are and what they really believe and they are "saved."   That is what I am saying.   John