Hi Bill. It is great to see you posting again.
Bill Taylor wrote:
But he was always the Son; i.e., he is the eternal Son -- "Jesus answered, 'If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God.' ... Jesus said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.'" (John 8.54,58) "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was." (John 17.5) "Father, I desire that they also whom You gave Me may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory which You have given Me; for You loved Me before the foundation of the world." (John 17.24)
Judy did not deny Jesus existing before the foundation of the world. She perceives the term "Son" to refer to his incarnation, becoming at this time both Son of Man and Son of God. Prior to this time, he was always God. The passages you share above do not seem to contradict her perspective on this at all. They only point out how Jesus already existed as God before the foundation of the world, something that Judy already affirmed as being true.
Psalm 2 along with Luke 1:35 seem to give a foundation for the understanding that "only begotten Son of God" refers to Christ's incarnation and being born of Mary. Let's consider Psalm 2 first:
Psalms 2:6-12
(6) Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
(7) I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
(8) Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
(9) Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
(10) Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
(11) Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
(12) Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
Do you see how the phrase, "this day have I begotten thee," suggests a particular day when the Son was begotten? Do you see how this passage speaks about Christ becoming flesh and taking his place as king among men?
When Gabriel spoke to Mary in Galilee, he said that because of what was happening to her, Jesus would be called, the Son of God.
Luke 1:35
(35) And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
So it appears from the language here that the human birth of Jesus, being a Divine act of God in the womb of a pure virgin, is the cause for this person to be called, "the Son of God."
Are there any verses anywhere in all of Scripture that speak of Jesus being the Son of God prior to this event? What would be wrong with the viewpoint that Jesus always was God, and became the Son of God when born of Mary?
If Jesus was begotten the Son of God at some point in eternity past, does this not mean that he was created on a particular day? How do you overcome this difficulty? The fundamentalist MacArthur seems to have cowered to religious political pressure and simply calls it a mystery. Do you have a better, more rational answer?
Bill Taylor wrote:
You are treading on sacred ground. At the same time you are bordering on denying both the full divinity of Christ and his human heritage.
I don't see a problem with the Divinity of Christ in what Judy has said. In fact, I think claiming "eternal Sonship" is more likely to challenge his true Deity than what Judy has shared. Nevertheless, I do think Judy needs to rethink her understanding of the humanity of Christ. The passages you shared as well as others we have shared in the past make this very clear.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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