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You go, John. Great points.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 10:13
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Idioms and
Figures of Speech
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If it makes you
happy to believe that Bill, then live it up. I don't think it will cause
you to lose your salvation.
As for me, what you are saying is so far out
that I do not know why anyone would buy it. It does not make a lick of
sense to claim that this day does not really mean this day,or that this day
can mean a bunch of days, or that the Savior was a son before He had a
mother.
Sorry, but no sale.
Terry
I just do not understand the reason for the
opposition to what Bill is saying. It is as if we cannot read the
biblical message at all. In John 17, the Son of God
addresses his heavenly Father and makes the following claims:
1) that he declares His existence as Son pre-dates his earthly
ministry - v 3. Jesus was sent by God , the Son sent by the
Father. The implication? That He was not created in
the womb but was sent (from his heavenly existence) to this place.
2.) He pronounces that He (Jesus Christ, the Son of God)
is not of this world -- his existence predates His
appearance here (verse 14).
3.) He, the Son of
God, was sent into this world -- something not possible if He had
no prior existence as the Son.
4.) He, the Son of
God praying to His Fathers, declares the Fathers love from Him before the
foundations of the world.
5.) The point of Luke's lineage
is not to say that Adam was, the first of the creation, the son of God but
that Christ -- even before his birth -- was the son of
God (Luke 3:38). It is a play on words, but not just a play
on words......a very powerful evangelical tool.
6) Romans
1:3-4 makes it clear that Christ is the Son of God, this is true from a
fleshly perspective (read "in the flesh") because of the lineage
through King David; it is true in the spirit because of the
resurrection. These two circumstances are testimony to His
Sonship. Neither pin point the time when He became the Son or Paul
would have used only one of these circumstances. He was the Son
before the foundations of the world and THAT IS WHY HE WAS BORN OF A VIRGIN
AND THAT IS WHY HE WAS RESURRECTED.
7.) God the
Father chose us in his Son, Jesus Christ, before the foundations of the
world ------ the Father and the Son working from us
specifically from the very beginning (Eph 1:3,4)
8.) Phil
2:6,7 specifically states that Christ (who happens to be the Son of God)
did not count equality with God a thing to be held on to, but emptied
Himself. Paul is clear -- Jesus (the Son)
gave us this example.
9) The "Son" as declared in
Col 1:13 had an existence before all things (v 17).
10.) The Hebrews writer declares that is was through the
"Son" (Heb 1:2) that all things were created. The Son
predates the virgin birth.
The Word of life and the Son of
God are the same. What is true of one is true of the other.
Because this is true, John speaks of them in the same equation, the same
breath, in I John 1:1-3. Jesus is the eternal life
manifested to us by the Father. .
11.) In I John 4:2,
that which we are to confess is that Jesus came in the flesh. That can
only mean that he predated the flesh. He did not have
existence as the Son, Jesus, at His birth. Rather, His birth
marked His coming in the flesh. Because He existed before the
flesh, he was able to come in the flesh.
John
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