... I think the issue continues to be a point of disagreement because we use the idea of "sin" very differently. I see lust, conceit, selfishness, pride, things I consider to be sin, as always with an individual making a statement like the one found in I Jo 1:8 a current and on going reality. But, of course, we do not need to act out such failings.
That is pretty much what I believe too, John. Until the resurrection, a sin principle resides in our flesh (our physical bodies). That is why our physical body continues to die and must die and be resurrected in order to inherit eternal life. This is why I do not use the term "sinless perfection." I do use the term perfection sometimes, because it is Biblical.
John Smithson wrote:
More than this, you believe that righteousness (acting out rightly the things of God) is caused by the Spirit of God rather than gifted by that same Spirit.
I believe that it is both. The gift of righteousness is the Spirit working within us to cause us to love one another.
John Smithson wrote:
The problem, again, may be in the words we use.
Maybe.
John Smithson wrote:
But I do not believe that such success is ever total, hence the need for a gifted righteousness by that same Spirit.
I believe this too. I just speak more about this "gifted righteousness" and how it works through us rather than how my old man could never get total success over sin.
John Smithson wrote:
We have had this discussion before - some months ago. You wound up defending your point by asserting your own victorious and consistent practice of righteousness.
I don't think so. I sometimes am put on the spot and asked to answer whether or not I am talking theory or reality, but I rarely want the spotlight to come on me in this discussion. That does not help anyone. The spotlight needs to be on Jesus and what God's Holy Word teaches us.
John Smithson wrote:
When I asserted that even you have continuing sin -- well, you took it personal, when, in fact, such an observation on my part was a forced conclusion based upon the way I see biblical teaching. It is not personal.
Again, you misunderstand me. I never take it personal when someone says that I continue to sin and that I am deluded to think otherwise. I hear this all the time. I realize that those who say it just don't realize the sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit that I have experienced, and they want to claim that nobody else can know it either. The Jews had the same problem with the Christians, as seen in the Scriptures and the early church writings. Its no skin off my nose. I am no more offended by it than when I preach Jesus Christ and someone tells me that Satan rules or that I am throwing my life away on religion. They are not disagreeing with me, but with what God has put within me. It is not really a personal rejection.
John Smithson wrote:
You are no more righteous than I, David. You are in the same boat as I when it comes to sin and sinning -- one sin or one continuing sin will put us in the same boat. At no time in our lives will we ever not need God's forgiveness.
I agree with all of this.
John Smithson wrote:
I see sin, sinning, sins of the character (pride, bigotry etc), sins of omission (knowing to do good but not doing it), issues or problems that have already been solved as concerns "condemnation."
Hey, me too. The blood of Christ and the power of the Spirit is sufficient to cover all these sins.
John Smithson wrote:
Rebellion is a totally different matter.
Again, we agree.
John Smithson wrote:
But we need to be careful here. Most sins, while in the process of being played out, look like rebellion. What proves one sin to be rebellious and another a part of our human nature is whether growth occurs or continues. The rebel is one who is actually working against God Himself.
As usual, we agree again.
John Smithson wrote:
Now, there is much in the above with which you disagree.
I don't think we disagree on that much, but I will let you decide that for yourself.
John Smithson wrote:
I hope that you will see that honest and Spirit filled disciples can have this disagreement.
Yes we can, but sometimes I don't know what it is that you think we disagree on. When you take time to expound, it seems we agree on most things.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
