Kay wrote: > just did a little research and found both > of them were Catholics.
Do you mean Roman Catholics? Careful. While Roman Catholics might want to claim a pedigree to the first apostles and therefore claim these men (Tertullian and Athanasius) as being fathers in Roman Catholicism, the truth is that Roman Catholicism did not begin until the 11th century. Prior to 1054, there were no separate denominations in Christianity. The Roman Catholic Church was the first denomination. The reason that few of us have this sense of history is because our educational system has descended from Roman Catholicism and is therefore biased by their slant on history. If you consult with historians from Eastern Orthodoxy, they claim that they represent the oldest church. The fact is that Roman Catholicism did not exist as we know it until the final split they made from the Eastern churches when they claimed that their Bishop in Rome had supremacy over all the churches of the world. Furthermore, both Tertullian and Athanasius lived and belonged primarily to churches in Africa. While they both visited Rome at times during their lives, they were not very much part of the church there. Athanasius was in Rome when he was forced into exile from the church, and returned to Egypt when his banishment was lifted. When he was banished several times again, he sought refuge in Northern Egypt or the outskirts of Alexandria, not Rome. Clearly he was not a close adherent to the church powers of Rome, though he was least rejected by the rulers there at the time. Kay wrote: > The dude who also came up with the pre-trib > rapture theory was also a Catholic a Jesuit priest > who claimed to be a Jew.) I can't remember his name. This guys name was Manuel Lacunza, who wrote under the name, Juan Josafat Ben-Ezra, but I think it inappropriate to identify him as the originator of the pre-trib rapture. You might want to read the article at the following website: http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/macpherson-dave_dd_04.html The article referenced above indicates that Lacunza never taught the pre-trib rapture. I think John Darby gets the real credit, though I realize others want to credit Margaret MacDonald or Edward Irving. They were all three associated with each other at some point, but Darby really articulated and put forth the viewpoint as a theologian. This happened around 1830, the same time Joseph Smith was introducing new Scriptures and a new church here in the United States. :-) Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
