who is whom in this post. The izzy part I got. Deb/Bill I might have it. John
In a message dated 1/12/2005 7:48:06 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Taylor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 10:32 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Whose Names are Written in the Lambs Book of Life?
If your logic holds, then we had better be teaching people their babies went to hell. That might keep them from killing the rest of them.
Exactly. I was trying to point out the absurdity of it.
Why are you so convinced that it rests in the mystery of God seeing the end from the beginning? Way too Arminian for me -- you are still waiting to get people saved. I've got news for you: they are saved. That is the Good News: He is Jesus Christ. If a person persistently rejects that news unto death, she SHOULD have been struck in the head as a baby! But rest assured the responsibility for her subsequent rejection rests squarely and totally upon her own shoulders. Our heart bleeds for her, but she heard the Good News of Jesus Christ, and this under the tutelage of none other than the greatest teacher in the universe, the Spirit of God himself, and still rejected that news. What a tragedy!
I am not an Arminian (not that there's anything wrong with that...). My position is actually the opposite of Arminianism. What I meant was not really all that different from what you said last time. When I said God sees the end from the beginning, I didn't mean foreknowledge. I meant that the person's whole life-direction is one. And by that I meant, if they reject the message after hearing, then they have already been saying no to whatever light/Spirit-preparation they have already received. If they accept it, they have already been saying yes. Which is pretty much what you said.
But it is as great a tragedy to limp along under the weight of a gospel of a Savior, who has not saved anyone until each one completes in the right order a specific rite of initiation
I agree with you there. But I'm not satisfied with the "negative-option marketing" plan.
For the life of me, I don't get it.
What? My entire theology, based on one post? That's OK. Actually, I don't get it either half the time. --Debbie
Bill
----- Original Message -----Yes, there is that problem if you press it to the logical conclusion, isn't there? Same with the all-babies-go-to-heaven view. In that case, best kill your kid before s/he reaches the age of accountability, or at least ensure a good pervasive brain injury. But no; the Heard-Not can't lose by hearing, nor the child by understanding. I think it relates to your earlier post--God sees the end from the beginning. Also, everyone has some knowledge or experience to respond to. The response doesn't have to be propositional, nor intelligible to us--only intelligible to God. (Mind you, I don't think I've figured this out yet...)
From: Debbie Sawczak
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 7:38 PM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Whose Names are Written in the Lambs Book of Life?
Debbie
-----Original Message-----
From: ShieldsFamily [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2005 8:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Whose Names are Written in the Lambs Book of Life?
Don't you believe that all mankind is included in the incarnation which makes them all headed for heaven whether or not they overcome anything. I underlined the portion of your statement which is a true representation of things I've said. The second part is not accurate and cannot be linked to what I actually believe and have stated. I am confident (and this because I have had to defend and clarify myself so many times) that I have written more about the potential of humans to lose their salvation, than anyone on this list. I do not damn people to hell, like, say, you do, but I have written many substantive words expressing the possibility of people rejecting Christ and damning themselves to hell. You know this, so why do you continue to misrepresent my position?
Bill
Bill it appears to me that your theological construct forces one to believe that the worst thing you could do is to tell someone about Jesus Christ. If they never hear about Jesus they are guaranteed a ticket to heaven. If they do hear about Him and reject Him, that is the only possible way they can be destined for Hell. So why go forth and spread the gospel? It sounds like a terrible thing to do. Izzy
