I know what F.E is, David. While we are on this subject - one which has nothing to do with Is 58 -- what churches present F.E to the exclusion of preaching or teaching the gospel?
Good Question! You are right almost all of them talk about evangelism, very few Do anything with it. Some do door to door as a church "ministry" Some leave it to individuals as they see fit. Most pay others to GO where they won't or can't to do what they know they should do. Thing is NOT ONE Church has reached their own community for Christ. They sure do a good job talking about it though. How about something more than LIP SERVICE?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
David, why in the world do you oppose perhaps 90% of the things I share on this forum? Your comments below have been written because you simply feel the need to object --- nothing else. I say this, because you cannot be this confused by accident. If Smithson says it, well, it just has to be wrong.
In a message dated 1/20/2005 2:22:34 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
John wrote:
>Let me get this straight. It is because this was
>your first public message that you have trouble
>seeing "friendship evangelism" there? Huh?
The point is that this passage, Is. 58, exposed to me how "friendship
evangelism" was not enough. Up to that point in time, that is all I did.
It was safe and comfortable. Public preaching is not.
The point is, you actually wrote that because this was your first public sermon, you had a problem with seeing friendship evangelism. That is what you wrote. Is 58 has nothing to do with street preaching -- nothing, David. Rather, it has everything to do with those who say and do the "right things" while not finding the very God they desire to serve. That you would go after me on "friendship evangelism" with this passage reveals much about your hermeneutic or lack thereof, not to mention a failure on your part to understand what I believe.
John wrote:
>First, "friendship evangelism" is something Judy T
>made up -- not me. I actually never use the _expression_.
It is a term used by many Protestants to denote evangelism through
friendship rather than preaching. Many churches give classes and seminars
in "Friendship Evangelism," even though the Bible teaches us that God chose
to use the foolishness of preaching to save the lost. If you don't
understand what "Friendship Evangelism" is, then that would explain why you
did not understand my comments about Is. 58.
I know what F.E is, David. While we are on this subject - one which has nothing to do with Is 58 -- what churches present F.E to the exclusion of preaching or teaching the gospel? As far as understanding your comments -- I understand that contextual, they have nothing to do with Isa 58.
John wrote:
>Isa 58:9-11 needs to be read by everyone on this forum
>- especially the KJV (in this case, the most poetic of all
>the translations). The passage presents one who is searching,
>searching, searching for his God. The search is over, for
>the sake of this passage, as one pours himself out for the
>afflicted and gives himself to the hungry. If you don't see
>the connection -- stop preaching. ............... immediately.
I think you need to back up and read the chapter from the beginning. I see
NOBODY searching for God in this passage.
Consider the following:
verse 2 (that would be close to the beginning of the chapter) --- Yet they seek me day by day and delight to know my ways ..... they ask me for just decisions, they delight in the nearness of God (verse 3) ...why have we fasted and Thous dost not see? Why have we humbled ourselves and Thou dost not take notice? (verse 4) Behold, you fast for contention and strife ..... (verse 5) [this is the fast I do not want} (verse 6) [I will tell what I want in a fast - my words, of course] :
v. 7 , 8, 9, 10, 11 --------- all have to do with kind of fast that God desires from his people. Such a fast will find those who fast in touch with their God. "You will call and the Lord will answer,; you will cry and the Lord will say, "Here am I if .........
And why do they cry out? Why do they call out? Perhaps God's response is somewhat of a clue ----------- HERE AM I. And the thought does not stop there. HERE AM I IF IF IF IF ............................ (v v 9-110.
You said "I see NOBODY searching for God in this passage" while I see it as the very theme that allows opportunity for the teaching on true religion. The "search for God" is referred to no less than 5 times in this chapter and is everywhere the overriding question to be answered. The contrast between what you see and the facts of the passage are startling. But, if this came to you as a young street preacher -- perhaps your youthful decisions about this passage have not been reviewed since then.
Isaiah is rebuking hypocrite
religion. He is rebuking those who think God wants them to fast, and he
tells them that the true fast is to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo
heavy burdens, to let the oppressed go free, to break every yoke, to share
bread with the hungry, to bring the poor cast out into your own home, to
give clothing to the poor, to not hide oneself from their close relatives.
Then, if they did these things, they would find God. But I thought you said that you did not see anyone searching for God in this passage? That is the point.
Those willing to SACRIFICE THEMSELVES, to deny self, these are the ones who
will find God. But is anyone searching, searching, searching, David? Some religious people think if they go without food twice a
week that makes them close to God, but Isaiah here rebukes them, telling
them to bring the homeless into their own home and sacrifice their personal
privacy, to take time out to go to the park and feed the hungry and bring
them clothing, etc. It tells them to break the bands of iniquity, which is
done by firm rebuke (I learned this by the example of Jesus). No kidding.
This passage rebukes HYPOCRISY head on. It rebukes FRIENDSHIP EVANGELISM. As you define F.E. Me I don't use the term. It teaches in its place a philosophy of emptying oneself for the poor and the wicked, and making sacrifices. If I were to teach any friendship evangelism class these principles and then try and have them all do it, the
class would empty out within just a few weeks. They would all quit. And how do you know this? Friendship evangelism teaches a different approach. It teaches you to
invite your neighbor over for coffee and watch a movie together. And how do you know this? You don't rebuke your neighbor. You make friends with him. Friendship evangelism is a way of building social clubs, not building the kingdom of God.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
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