See comments below:
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 7:22
AM
Subject: [TruthTalk] Original
Sin
> *note subject change
> Subject was " Basis of Unity (Bill)" and now is "Original Sin"
>
> Bill Taylor wrote:
> >> ... I do not think their transgressions are reckoned
> >> to them as sin until that time that they have both a
> >> cognitive and a moral awareness of the law,
> >> i.e., of right and wrong and why the transgression
> >> of such is sinful (cf. Rom 7.9).
>
> Izzy wrote:
> > Agreed.
>
> Bill and Izzy, how do you deal with the subject matter of Romans 5? The
> following passage seems to indicate that an advserse sentence of
> condemnation is passed upon all men by the offense of one man:
>
> Romans 5:18
> (18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to
> condemnation
>
> Several verses earlier, Paul was using the observation of death reigning
> over men from Adam to Moses as evidence of this condemnation:
>
> Romans 5:14
> (14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had
> not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression
>
> The concepts Paul teaches here appear contradictory to your perceptions.
> Subject was " Basis of Unity (Bill)" and now is "Original Sin"
>
> Bill Taylor wrote:
> >> ... I do not think their transgressions are reckoned
> >> to them as sin until that time that they have both a
> >> cognitive and a moral awareness of the law,
> >> i.e., of right and wrong and why the transgression
> >> of such is sinful (cf. Rom 7.9).
>
> Izzy wrote:
> > Agreed.
>
> Bill and Izzy, how do you deal with the subject matter of Romans 5? The
> following passage seems to indicate that an advserse sentence of
> condemnation is passed upon all men by the offense of one man:
>
> Romans 5:18
> (18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to
> condemnation
>
> Several verses earlier, Paul was using the observation of death reigning
> over men from Adam to Moses as evidence of this condemnation:
>
> Romans 5:14
> (14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had
> not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression
>
> The concepts Paul teaches here appear contradictory to your perceptions.
I think you mis-perceive my perception. :>) This
is where I find disagreement with Izzy and you, I believe, if I correctly
remember your position. Were it not for their inclusion in Christ, by way of his
atoning representation of them, young children (along with all humanity), would
remain under the condemnation of Adam's offense, and should they die, they would
die under the judgment of that same offence. Hence, I wrote to Izzy that I
had great difficulty thinking of them as "innocent": Were it not for Christ,
their guilt in Adam would condemn them, even before they have
"sinned" (Paul touches on the same thing in verse 14, although in 2Cor
5.19 he clarifies that God did not impute their trespasses to them). BUT
this is not the rest of the story. Verse 18 goes on to state: "even so
through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all [humans], resulting in
justification of life." Young children are included in Christ's
recapitulation of humanity and remain so until they refuse him and
therefore that justification of life. Hence I wrote: they are saved, whereupon
Izzy disagreed, arguing instead that they don't need to be saved because
they have not sinned. If I remember you correctly, I think you take a similar
position.
Bill
