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Kevin, this is a subject where the Greek CAN help you out. The
English word for heresy has changed over time. The Greek word used in
these passages, "hairesis," refers to factions, sects, cults. Galatians 5
does not list "false opinion" (=heresy) as a work of the flesh, but rather
it is talking about factions. 2 Peter 2:1 (not 2:21) speaks of damnable
factions created by the false teachings.
Now as you are scraping the bottom of the barrel looking for a passage that
excommunicates false teachers, or worse yet, burns them at the stake, please
hear me when I say that I am not approving of false teaching or false
teachers. Sound doctrine is very important. What I am trying to warn
you against is treating the false teaching in the same way that you would treat
sin.
The false teachers themselves always seem to focus on getting the OPINIONS
of others right. True doctrine is always trying to get the BEHAVIOR of
others right.
Furthermore, my previous point was trying to deal with how God has a
certain kind of tolerance toward errant opinions that he does not manifest
toward sin. The Sadducees had many erroneous opinions, but they worked in
the Temple service just fine among those who had the more true opinions.
The point is that God is not in favor of having the "Thought police" who
would discipline those who have wrong thinking. He is in favor of having
BEHAVIOR POLICE who discipline those who have wrong behavior. There needs
to be some latitude for people to think, consider, and then make
judgments. Now those who think poorly are not going to impress God much,
but even those who think rightly don't have that much more of his
attention. On the other hand, those who are perfect in love are highly
esteemed by God.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 3:10
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Cult
behavior
False ideas precede false actions
heresy is sin and as such sends people to hell
Gal 5 says HERESIES along with witchcraft, idolatry, fornication
Adultery are WORKS of the flesh
2 Pt 2:21 But there were false prophets also
among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily
shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that
bought them, and bring upon themselves swift
destruction.
If false Doctrine is not a sin that sends one to hell Please explain
how one Blasphemes Doctrine
HERESY is CONDEMNED it is DAMNABLE 2 Pt 2:21 and God's DOCTRINE can be
BLASHEMED 1 Tim 6:1
David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kevin
wrote:
> First of all heresy and false doctrine
> are sin
also
> Titus [sic] 1:10 For whoremongers, for them
> that defile
themselves with mankind, for
> menstealers, for liars, for perjured
persons,
> and if there be any other thing that is contrary
> to
sound doctrine
Sound doctrine is that teaching which produces
holiness. Read this passage
a little more carefully. It is not
condemning those who have false ideas,
but those who have ACTIONS which
are contrary to sound doctrine. A man who
considers it okay in a
situation to steal is not condemned until he either
plans out a theft or
actually commits a theft. In the same way, the person
who considers
giving to a good cause is not righteous until he actually does
it. It
works both ways.
Please read 1 Timothy 1:10 again and notice that
sins are condemned, not
mistaken ideas. Sound doctrine is not defined as
"true teaching" but rather
as that teaching which produces wholesome
behavior (holiness, love, etc.).
God is not in favor of having "thought
police."
Kevin wrote:
> The last time we talked about this I
was not
> able to come up with excommunication for
> false
doctrine??????? maybe you were involved
> with someone else.
It
was not someone else. It was you and Dean, here on TruthTalk.
Kevin
wrote:
> Consider them as heathen MT 18 And if he
> shall
neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church:
> but if he neglect to
hear the church, let him be
> unto thee as an heathen man and a
publican.
Mat. 18 concerns how to handle personal sin, not false
teaching.
Kevin wrote:
> AVOID False Doctrine is contagious
RM
> 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark
> them which cause
divisions and offences
> contrary to the doctrine which ye
have
> learned; and avoid them.
The things that lead us to
avoidance here are divisions and offenses. The
means by which they
accomplish this is false teaching. We are to avoid
those who cause such
divisions through false teaching, but note how mild
this is compared to
the approach of 1 Cor. 5 with the fornicator, who is
excommunicated for
his continued sin.
Kevin wrote:
> WITHDRAW from those Following
Wrong tradition
> 2 Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the
name
> of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves
>
from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after
> the
tradition which he received of us.
Here he is talking about those who
are walking disorderly. This is sin,
actions which are contrary to love.
No mention of false teachings here.
Kevin wrote:
> CHARGE them
that they stop Titus 1 that thou
> mightest charge some that they
teach no other
> doctrine
Read Titus 1 carefully, and notice
how he deals with false doctrine here.
It is not through excommunication
or delivering them over to Satan. It is
by instruction and by rebuke.
Titus cannot convince and exhort the
gainsayers if he is not associating
with them to some degree.
Kevin wrote:
> WITHDRAW from
Blasphemous Doctrine
> 1Tim 6 that the name of God and his
doctrine
> be not blasphemed.
You seem a little mixed up here.
1 Tim. 6:1 is about servants giving honor
to their masters.
Kevin
wrote:
> If any man teach otherwise, and consent not
> to
wholesome words, even the words of our
> Lord Jesus Christ, and to the
doctrine which
> is according to godliness... from such
withdraw
> thyself DONT LET THEM IN
I think you are taking too
much liberty in your translation to say, "Don't
let them in." Paul is
urging Timothy not to waste time disputing with
people who are not
walking in the truth. Nothing is said here about
excommunicating. He is
explaining a leadership style. Timothy should focus
upon teaching sound
doctrine to those who will receive it, and he should
withdraw from those
who are teaching out of strife, envy, railings, and evil
surmisings. If
teaching does not lead to holiness, it is worthless.
Now you have one
thing right. There is a relationship between teachings and
actions.
Discipline is brought to bear when the actions are manifested, not
when
the ideas are formulated and expressed. First there is rebuke and
correction. Then there is marking and avoidance. By that time, the
person
will be into so much sin that excommunication would become
appropriate, not
for the false teaching, but for the sinful behavior
manifested. Rightly and
carefully divide the Word of God and you will
see that what I say to you
about this is true.
Peace be with
you.
David Miller.
----------
"Let your speech be always
with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer
every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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