Kevin Deegan wrote:
Do you consider the Judge that CONDEMNED Scott Peterson to Death
an OGRE also?
DAVEH: No.....the punishment he gave Scott is for a finite period and
of minimal pain/suffering.
What does weeping and Gnashing of teeth, mean to you?
DAVEH: For the most part, it is symbolic for the way folks who reject
Jesus will feel when they are separated from his love......forever.
what does Tormented Day & Night mean to you?
DAVEH: One will not forget missing that which could have been theirs
had they accepted Jesus.
How does a dead person engage in such activity?
DAVEH: Due to the Lord's grace, all will be resurrected.
At death there is a separation of body, soul and spirit.
However, at the ressurection of the DEAD those who are judged for their
works are condemned to Hell, the bodies spirit and soul will be
ressurected & reunited to be cast into the lake of fire,
DAVEH: I believe that is symbolic, rather than a literal casting.
because there Nmaes are not written in the Book of Life. They
are basing their hope on their works and are judged accordingly by
their works which fall short. These are always called DEAD and this is
the SECOND DEATH for these poor souls.
DAVEH: Do you believe in a spiritual death, which I've defined as a
separation from God?
RV 11:18 And the nations were angry, and
thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged
There are TWO ressurections
RV 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the
thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on
such the second death hath no power
Rv 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great,
stand before God; and the books were opened: and
another book was opened, which is the book of life:
and the dead were judged out of those things which
were written in the books, according to their works....
This is the second death.
Rv 20 devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and
brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are,
and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The beast and false prophet were cast into the Lake of fire
earlier in revelations, they are still there at the arrival of the
Devil. They are in TORMENT.
DAVEH: I believe that torment is mental anguish. I assume you
disagree?
NONE in heaven BUT those written in the book
RV 21:27 And there shall in no wise
enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever
worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the
Lamb's book of life.
FATE OF ALL OTHERS
RV 20;15 And whosoever was not found written
in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
DAVEH: ??? Do you believe those found
written in the book of life were judged by their works to get
there? Or, is getting written up in the found
written in the book of life merely a result of
believing/accepting Jesus, as I have?
DAVEH:
OK Kevin.....For once we have a bit of agreement between us....at least
on the surface. I also believe death is the punishment for
transgression. However, you seem to want to extrapolate that a bit
further than me. And, I may have a different definition of death than
you......
To me, death means a separation......of which there are
two scenarios. In the case of physical death, that separation is
between the spirit and the body. When death occurs, the spirit leaves
the mortal body. When one is given eternal life, that spirit and body
are recombined as a resurrected being. The second instance of death
is a spiritual death, which I understand to mean one is separated from
God. Those who transgress God's Law will suffer spiritual death for
their sins, unless they accept Jesus and invite the atoning grace of
our Savior to return them to the love of God.
Do you agree with any of the above, Kevin? If not, how do you
define death?
As I see it, you further believe that God is going to extend his
punishment of death (upon which we agree) beyond a finite event of
limited pain to a vindictive and punitive physical torture by throwing
the unrepentant sinner into a literal lake of fire. Is that your
belief, Kevin? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I assume
that is how you see it.....that God is essentially an ogre as described
in Perry's post.
IF that is how you perceive it, Kevin, I do believe you are drawing
unwarranted conclusions as to how a merciful and just God dispenses his
justice. What possible reason would God have to physically torture a
person forever? What justice is served by such cruelty? Death
yes....we c an agree. Torture???......No, on that we must disagree.
My God of love and mercy is not one who relishes such. If you prefer
to believe God tortures people, may the Lord have mercy on you.
Kevin Deegan wrote:
I just don't see why any Christian would think the Lord
would physically and punitively literally toss them into a burning lake
to torture them forever. Why is such brutality needed by God? I don't
see why it makes sense to anyone who believes God is a loving
parent.....rather it makes God seem like the ogre Perry mentioned.
Maybe when you move in next door to some of the most debased
characters who ever walked this earth, you will know why. The same
reason homeowners do not want child molestors, murderers, cannibals to
move into the neighborhood. There is also a just punishment to
consider. You may take lying lightly, but all sin is breaking of God's
law. the punishment for lying is the same as Murder, The DEATH
SENTENCE. The only way out is accepting God's pardon thru the sacrifice
and payment of the death sentence by Jesus Christ. Without that pardon
God is too Holy to even look on your sin and will cast you out of His
sight forever into the lake of fire so you can be neighbors with a
Motley Crew. In God's presence will only be the Pure Redeemed, washed
by the Blood of the Lamb!
No admittence to those without a Wedding Garment!
MT 22 And he saith unto him,
Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a
wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the
king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there
shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are
called, but few are chosen
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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