DAVEH Due to the Lord's grace, all will be resurrected.
Yes some to Heaven & some to HELL depending on their acceptance or rejection of that grace.
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Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to Shame and EVERlasting Contempt. What would give you the idea that these verses are symbolic? What do you think the SECOND DEATH is? | |
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kevin Deegan wrote:
DAVEH: No.....the punishment he gave Scott is for a finite period and of minimal pain/suffering.Do you consider the Judge that CONDEMNED Scott Peterson to Death an OGRE also?
DAVEH: For the most part, it is symbolic for the way folks who reject Jesus will feel when they are separated from his love......forever.What does weeping and Gnashing of teeth, mean to you?
DAVEH: One will not forget missing that which could have been theirs had they accepted Jesus.what does Tormented Day & Night mean to you?
DAVEH: Due to the Lord's grace, all will be resurrected.How does a dead person engage in such activity?
DAVEH: I believe that is symbolic, rather than a literal casting.At death there is a separation of body, soul and spirit. However, at the ressurection of the DEAD those who are judged for their works are condemned to Hell, the bodies spirit and soul will be ressurected & reunited to be cast into the lake of fire,
DAVEH: Do you believe in a spiritual death, which I've defined as a separation from God?because there Nmaes are not written in the Book of Life. They are basing their hope on their works and are judged accordingly by their works which fall short. These are always called DEAD and this is the SECOND DEATH for these poor souls.
DAVEH: I believe that torment is mental anguish. I assume you disagree?RV 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judgedThere are TWO ressurectionsRV 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power
Rv 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.... This is the second death.
Rv 20 devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The beast and false prophet were cast into the Lake of fire earlier in revelations, they are still there at the arrival of the Devil. They are in TORMENT.
DAVEH: ??? Do you believe those found written in the book of life were judged by their works to get there? Or, is getting written up in the found written in the book of life merely a result of believing/accepting Jesus, as I have?NONE in heaven BUT those written in the bookRV 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
FATE OF ALL OTHERSRV 20;15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:DAVEH: OK Kevin.....For once we have a bit of agreement between us....at least on the surface. I also believe death is the punishment for transgression. However, you seem to want to extrapolate that a bit further than me. And, I may have a different definition of death than you......
To me, death means a separation......of which there are two scenarios. In the case of physical death, that separation is between the spirit and the body. When death occurs, the spirit leaves the mortal body. When one is given eternal life, that spirit and body are recombined as a resurrected being. The second instance of death is a spiritual death, which I understand to mean one is separated from God. Those who transgress God's Law will suffer spiritual death for their sins, unless they accept Jesus and invite the atoning grace of our Savior to return them to the love of God.
Do you agree with any of the above, Kevin? If not, how do you define death?
As I see it, you further believe that God is going to extend his punishment of death (upon which we agree) beyond a finite event of limited pain to a vindictive and punitive physical torture by throwing the unrepentant sinner into a literal lake of fire. Is that your belief, Kevin? I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I assume that is how you see it.....that God is essentially an ogre as described in Perry's post.
IF that is how you perceive it, Kevin, I do believe you are drawing unwarranted conclusions as to how a merciful and just God dispenses his justice. What possible reason would God have to physically torture a person forever? What justice is served by such cruelty? Death yes....we c an agree. Torture???......No, on that we must disagree. My God of love and mercy is not one who relishes such. If you prefer to believe God tortures people, may the Lord have mercy on you.
Kevin Deegan wrote:
I just don't see why any Christian would think the Lord would physically and punitively literally toss them into a burning lake to torture them forever. Why is such brutality needed by God? I don't see why it makes sense to anyone who believes God is a loving parent.....rather it makes God seem like the ogre Perry mentioned.Maybe when you move in next door to some of the most debased characters who ever walked this earth, you will know why. The same reason homeowners do not want child molestors, murderers, cannibals to move into the neighborhood. There is also a just punishment to consider. You may take lying lightly, but all sin is breaking of God's law. the punishment for lying is the same as Murder, The DEATH SENTENCE. The only way out is accepting God's pardon thru the sacrifice and payment of the death sentence by Jesus Christ. Without that pardon God is too Holy to even look on your sin and will cast you out of His sight forever into the lake of fire so you can be neighbors with a Motley Crew. In God's presence will only be the Pure Redeemed, washed by the Blood of the Lamb!No admittence to those without a Wedding Garment!MT 22 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen-- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
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