Re: [TruthTalk] Eternal Judgment

[Dave Hansen]

Terry Clifton wrote: Dave Hansen wrote:     As I see it, you further believe that God is going to extend his punishment of death (upon which we agree) beyond a finite event of limited pain to a vindictive and punitive physical torture by throwing the unrepentant sinner into a literal lake of fire.  Is that your belief, Kevin?   I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I assume that is how you see it.....that God is essentially an ogre as described in Perry's post.     IF that is how you perceive it, Kevin, I do believe you are drawing unwarranted conclusions as to how a merciful and just God dispenses his justice.  What possible reason would God have to physically torture a person forever?  What justice is served by such cruelty?  Death yes....we can agree.  Torture???......No, on that we must disagree.  My God of love and mercy is not one who relishes such.  If you prefer to believe God tortures people, may the Lord have mercy on you. ====================================================== Is it possible.Dave, that we cannot realize what a terrible thing it is to reject the sacrifice by God of His only Son? DAVEH:  Yes, I agree.....it is probably not possible for many to comprehend the magnitude of the sacrifice of our Lord in our behalf. Could this not be such a terrible crime that eternal agony is the only just punishment? DAVEH:  Remembering such could certainly give one an eternal mental agony.  But to be physically tortured forever as many Christians proclaim is not something I believe God would do.   Do you really believe God is such an ogre (to use Perry's description), Terry?   If you sacrificed your only son for your enemy, and the response of your enemy was to spit on the sacrifice and walk away, what would you feel? DAVEH:  Contempt perhaps.  Would I enjoy physically torturing them for what they did to my son.....No.  I would find that very difficult to do.  I might execute them, or banish them (imprison) them from my presence.....that would seem fair and just for their action.  But to torture them with physical pain forever....Not in a zillion eons.  Doing so would make me worse than them!   My desire would be to not let my enemies determine my destiny.   If a person's sins would/could cause God to become a sadistic torturer for the rest of eternity......then he would cease to be God, IMHO.   Keep in mind that you do not hate sin as God hates sin, and your son is a sinner, not a spotless lamb. Therefore, though you can get the picture, you are seeing it through frosted glass. DAVEH:  Why do you think the Lord has commanded us to forgive, Terry?  Is it possible he wants us to be more God like?  Or do you think he wants us to learn how to forgive those who trespass us so that we will have a character trait that is not God like?  If we are to forgive an infinite number of times (described as 7X70 by Jesus), then do you think God will forgive less?  Do you understand the point I'm trying to make, Terry?  IOW....why do you think God wants us to become something he is not? I cannot think of any other reason why God may write one off in such a manner, than that the crime deserves the punishment. DAVEH:    What crime deserves physical torture forever, Terry?    If somebody brutally murdered your only son, would you want to physically torture him?   And....would you want such torture to go on forever???  If you feel that way, I do feel sorry for you, as it would make you an ogre.  If you don't feel that way....I don't understand why you think God would feel that way, as it would make him seem like an ogre. Selah. Terry -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain Five email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.