Re: [TruthTalk] TruthTalk] Eternal Judgment

[Dave Hansen]

Debbie Sawczak wrote: Here is how this "Protestant" thinks: Jesus didn't "found a church" at all. That has jarred for me since childhood as a thorough misunderstanding. It makes me think of a voluntary association of people who subscribe to a new set of religious ideas and practices thought up by (or revealed to) Jesus, and by which they hope to find their way to God (only Jesus managed to get it right, like solving a riddle, so it was the right church).   Jesus didn't lay a foundation, he is and always was the foundation. DAVEH:  That seems somewhat contradictory to what Paul described in Eph 2:19-20, where the fellowcitizens with the saints and the household of God (is that not referring to the greater congregation of the Church as a whole?) were given a foundation of apostles and prophets (Jesus being the cornerstone) to form the (hierarchal) framework of the Church.  Could that not be suggesting that a True Church could not exist without apostles and prophets, nor without such would we come to a unity of faith and perfecting of the saints as mentioned in Eph 4:11-14?   As I see it, Debbie....I respectfully disagree.  I do think Jesus gave us a foundation of A&Ps, upon which he founded the True Church, so to speak. What he did was of a completely different order than any "church founder", way more radical: unite God and humanity in life, death, resurrection, and ascension. The result is that our corrupt humanity is made new, his faith is produced in us, and we are included with him in the fellowship of God.   Debbie   DAVEH:   Is this a commonly accepted theory of Protestantism?  LDS folks believe such thinking is flawed, John.  IOW.....I believe Jesus founded the RIGHT CHURCH and a measured amount of legalism is important and necessary within that True Church.   What our Mormon friends do not understand and what you will not admit to, apparently, is that there was no time when the RIGHT CHURCH EXISTED except in the Mind of God and via the blood of Christ.   The First Church was steeped in legalism.  -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.