Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow way not " loving"?

[Judy Taylor]

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 00:20:10 -0700 Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: jt: Hi DaveH,   No Paul Hill did not represent either God's zeal in our generation or any of the nine fruit of the Holy Spirit.   DAVEH:   ???   Are you suggesting PH was not a Christian, Judy?  I assume he was, and that most Protestants accept him as such.  That you below hope his wife and orphan children who I hope the Church is taking care of., wouldn't that suggest his Christian leanings?   Am I wrong?   jt: What I am saying is that PH was misguided no matter what he professed to be. Can you imagine Jesus blowing up Abortion Clinics and shooting physicians?  In the Day of the Lord when He comes as Judge - Yes.  But today we are in the day of grace and it is not yet time for Him to put ALL enemies under His feet - It's coming. DH: Assuming he was saved (correct me if I am wrong) in the commonly perceived Christian sense, then did he not believe he was representing the Lord at the time he set the doctor on his journey to an eternal physical torture?  That seems the height of eagerness....does it not?   jt: No question PH was full of zeal.  The question is - was it was Godly zeal?  The Jews that God put under a spirit of stupor (Rom 11:8) were also full of zeal for God, their problem being that their zeal was not according to knowledge (Romans 10:2,3) and they did not know how to submit themselves to the righteousness of God (Jesus).  **This is why obedience is so important.  God does not use 'lone rangers' (like Paul Hill) who take the civil law into their own hands and break the Royal Law. He says the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God (James 1:19,20)   DAVEH:   Hmmmmmm........if I were a bit more Biblically astute, I'd probably be able to find you some OT examples of prophets who defied the law of the land to execute the Royal Law.  (Elijah comes to mind....1Kg 18:40)   jt: Not a good example DaveH. Israel were supposed to be God's covenant ppl who Jezebel along with her weak husband Ahab had led into apostasy.  Elijah represented God's higher purpose for them. A recent opportunity to take the high road (God's way) would have been to defy the Florida Judiciary peacefully and interrupt the evil process of starving Terri Schiavo (an American citizen) to death.  **Under the Old Covenant Israel as a nation  were told at different times to go out and defeat certain of God's enemies.  However, since the cross things have changed.  Now we are told that our enemies are spiritual and so are our weapons.    DAVEH:   Hmmmmmm........if you think all your enemies are spiritual, I'd have to respectfully disagree, Judy.  Where did you get that idea?   jt: It is the teaching of scripture DaveH.  We no longer war against flesh and blood but against 'principalities and powers and wicked spirits' in the heavenlies; and the weapons of our warfare are no longer carnal - they are mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds. ** God tells us that "vengeance is His" and that He will repay. DAVEH:  What do you want to bet that PH thought he was God's executioner......   jt: Wouldn't need to bet - that's obvious but I believe he went out there on his own. ** He (God) is well able to take care of abortionists.   DAVEH:  The Bible is replete with God instructing his followers to destroy those who impeded the Lord's work.   jt: Only when Israel was a theocracy under the Old Covenant; you won't find God instructing anything like this from Matthew through Revelation. **In fact I've seen one lady on TV who used to manage an Abortion Clinic - She has come to the Light, repented, and is now out there speaking for God; I think you would agree that this brings Him a whole lot more glory. DAVEH:  To take a passage out of context, let me quote Jesus........ "Now consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not." Jn 11:50  .........Do you suppose PH pondered that in concluding God wanted him to save a lot of babies?   jt: I would hope that PH knew better than that. Jesus was prophesying his own death in propitiation for the sin of the whole nation.  His death was one of a kind; it can never be replicated.  Paul Hill had a zeal for what he perceived as being right but his actions were not according to knowledge.   **I don't know if Paul Hill cursed ppl verbally and I don't judge him personally, he was misguided and I've been there - It's such a sad case - PH may have been well meaning but the ones left to suffer are his wife and orphan children who I hope the Church is taking care of.  jt     On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:47:42 -0700 Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: DAVEH:   I don't know if Paul Hill ever said something to the effect...... I hope you burn in hell. ...........but who would be surprised if he did!  And.....wouldn't you think he was angry and vengeful?  Furthermore, did he not represent either God's zeal or the fruit of a Christian life? Judy Taylor wrote: In contrast the ppl DaveH speaks of sound angry and vengeful for personal reasons so they would not represent either God's zeal or the fruit of a Christian life..   judyt   -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.