Col 1:17ff, we find the fact of reconciliation presented and the purpose of this reconciliation put forth. We have been reconciled so that we might be holy, blameless and above reproach in His sight. How can young people benefit from this teaching -- the full presentation; the fact and the purpose? Think about it: if we do not approach the effort to holiness with the view in mind of securing our salvation; if we understand that our salvation is secured by other influences -- then the purpose of holiness is for our own health, for our own good. If we are not saved via holiness, what, then is the benefit? Sanctification and spiritual maturity. Our youth need to see the blessing of holy pursuits and the scandal of selfish impatience.
JD writes:
In
jt: Rather we should be teaching them spiritual discernment along with the blessings of obedience and the curses that come upon those who rebel.
Our youth need to see the blessing of holy pursuits and the scandal of selfish impatience
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No "rather" about it, Judy. i can't believe that are criticizing the statement above. Clearly, you are just wanting to argue. You don't think that young people to see the benefits of holy pursuits and the scandal of selfish impatience.? Incredible.
We need to tell them to pursue the light while they have opportunity
because darkness is there to overtake them because It's much more than a 'scandal' JD. It's a matter of life and/or death although the way you &Kruger state it - Reconciliation is just layed on us when we are unaware so who would ever guess "It's a narrow way that only a few are going to find" Young people from miles around will flock to such a message. You, my dear, have never worked with youth? And, by the way, my remarks have nothing to do with license.
JD: If we understand that "reconciliation" is for all but "salvation" is not always used in the grander sense, we will have no problem, here. Perhaps this is another one of those problematic issues. Not for me, but I can see that it would be for others. "Salvation" is both esoteric in presentation and universal in Divine Hope. Where you see "few" saved, I see whole nations standing in His light ( Rev 21:24.)
jt: Are you telling me now that Jesus "The Word of God" was not aware of this when He said "strait is the gate and narrow is the way and only a few will find it?" No, I am saying that YOU didn't know that. Could be few in the light of all who have ever lived, I don't know about that but when Jesus says "few" - I believe He means "few" Hundreds of thousands, no doubt. heaven is a big, big place.
JD: -- I see myriad's of creatures (including human creatures) worshipping Him (Rev. 5:9-14). In Rev 7:9,10 I have this reading : After these things I looked and behold, a great multitude, which no one could count (what ??!!!!) from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in which robes and palm branches were in their hands and the cry out with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation is to our God who sits on the throne and to the Lamb." Do you understand why I disagree with the notion that salvation is for only a few. Perhaps "the few" of which you speak (and it is definitely there in the biblical text) is a reference to the Poeple of Israel -- I don't know but I will say that heaven will be chucked full of people like you and me.
jt: There's a great multitude which no one could count (they estimate) at the Vatican right now filing by to kneel in front of the corpse of a dead Pope - these are but few compared to the present population of this world in our generation. And, so, Judy avoids the truth of yet another passage of scripture. Why do you do this. The Vatican crowd is not a comparison.
JD: When Christian young peopledeliberately choose to indulge themselves with no concern for others (and that is exactly what they are doing), they make themselves no different in function from those who hate God and give Him no acclaim. THAT is the scandal, as I see it. It is the scandal in my life, for sure. I was quite the sexual activist in my younger days - me a Christian and forever (it seemed) a leader within our youth group and at Christian college.
jt No fear of God is the result of believing the lie that there is no consequence for sin.
JD: Yes in deed. A very important consideration.
One day, I asked myself this question: "how in the hell am I different from the atheists? I mean, I am doing these things ON PURPOSE, deliberately IGNORING my own conscience, just because I don't want to wait. I am insulting the very authority of God, my loving and patient spiritual Father - will He run out of patience with me? Will he conclude that I am none of His BECAUSE THAT IS THE WAY I AM LIVING MY LIFE? "
jt: You wouldn't be in line to inherit God's Kingdom - that's for sure. Fornicators don't make it and under the Old Covenant presumptuous sinners were cut off. Spoken well by one who is works salvationist. but that is why I like you.
JD: Even a loving and patient father wonders these things when he sees his own destroying their lives and, after all is said and done, CANNOT STOP THEM. And so Christ stands over the city and weeps. He CANNOT COMMAND FAITH. Grace is free but not cheap and we all have to make that concept a truth in our lives.
jt: So what's the concept JD and what do you tell the ppl you counsel to aid them in becoming free from their misery and addictions?
JD: There are no typical answers, Judy.
jt: There are answers JD. Of course. What do you think I do when in conference? Tell them, "Thanks anyway -- I have no solutions." ???? For what purpose was the Son of God manifest? Wasn't it to destroy the work of the evil one so the captives could be made free? Yes and that happened by the time of the ascension. If we are not seeing captives being made free then there is a big disconnect in our understanding and we are not where we should be in Christ at all, no matter what Kruger says. If we are not seeing captives being made free, we have a false god.
judyt.
