Thank you Caroline. It occurs to me that if salvation, for the most part, is being given Divine Direction, finding our way. deliverance from self --- then being "lost " is the very opposite. Nothing more.
If being lost is having lost our way, wondering about with nothing to bounce off of except our own ideas, our own misery -- hell is just that. There are passages that tell us that we are "dead already" without Christ, before death, before "hell."
Could it be?
Hell is not "punishment" or "judgment" IN THE SENSE THAT SUCH JUDGMENT IS SOMETHING OTHER THAN WHAT WE HAVE AND ARE DOING TO OURSELVES. I believe it was Paul who said that we are "without excuse." Judgment, i.e. the judgment of God, is merely a recognition by God of what we have done to and for ourselves.
He might be angry -- but we do not "go to hell" because of His wrath. We go to hell because of our own stupidy, our own selfishness. We go to hell because of our total disregard for OURSELVES. (God gave them over to the lust of their hearts .. Ro 1:24ff). God has no decision to make. He just recognizes our destiny. There is no conflict between the Love of God and the Wrath of God, as I see, because the wrath of God merely speaks to just how disappointed He is in us ---- AND THAT IS AN ACTION OF LOVE.
The image of God is more than community. It is more than relating to others. It is God within us !!! God talked with Adam -- gave him direction, instruction. Maybe God communicated with Adam via a still small voice......from the inside. If the fall is the fall -- If Christ reconciled us from this fall ----- then, He became a part of us AGAIN (indwelling). I can't say this for certain. But we do know that after the sin of the tree, God was Another -- not a part of Adam. I mean, God was here and Adam was over there, hiding in the bushes, was he not? THAT was different. Today, God is not over there -- He is "in here."
Anyway
JD out loud again (out loud or out to lunch, right JT ?)
In a message dated 4/12/2005 9:10:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
(he goes out and recovers
Matt 1:21: For he shall save his people from their sins.
Sin is something we do to ourselves. It brings death. We are dead already.
He saves us from ourselves !!
Matt 8:25 (in the storm) Lord, save us.
Here, salvation is the work of the Lord from physical disaster.
Matt 16:25 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it
Lose of life in this context is self denial. Again, salvation is deliverance
FROM SELF.
Matt 18:11 The Son of Man came to seek and save the lost.
Here, it means to me "recovery and direction."
a sheep that is lost).
I am saved when I received by the Shepherd and given direction. This
direction (the road map) is within the flock -- (Heb 10:24 let us stimulate
one another to love and good works -- that is our road map)
Lk 18:42 Thy faith hath saved thee (made you well ----- same word as all of the above)
Salvation, here, is physical healing because of our faith.
I Pet 3:21 baptism doeth also now save us.
a personal effort offers "salvation" -- again from ourselves -- a request for
good conscience through the resurrection.
Without Christ, we are lost, of course. I drive and drive, confident that I can find my own way without directions from Another. In the end, about to run out of gas (death on the highway) and confused -- He seeks me out and gives me direction.
Salvation is different from reconciliation. Just as the Covenant is unilateral, so is reconciliation. Salvation is somewhat different. Salvation = the proper direction in life. Hence the need for repentance. If we are headed in the wrong direction, we need to turn around and go home. In the parable of the prodigal, the Father WAS there -- in the pigpen ---- and the son knew. He turned to his father in that pigpen. When he left that pigpen HE WAS HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. He was saved.
