Re: [TruthTalk] Narrow Way Not Loving

[Judy Taylor]

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:53:06 -0400 "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Judy wrote: I believe that the seed was always spiritual in nature, ie Abraham had two sons only Isaac was the son of promise.   DM:  But Paul says that this concept of two sons was an allegory (Gal. 2:24), meaning that we should not adopt any idea of a literal spiritual seed.   There is no Galatians 2:24 David but I do recall an allegory - Oh I see it is Galatians 4:24 and Paul used this to make the point that the spiritual seed was persecuted back then as it is today by the seed of the flesh.  God called Isaac the seed of Promise in Genesis 21:12 so nothing has changed.    Judy wrote: Jesus was Jewish in the sense that he was born under the Law in the nation of Israel - as for His blood. We are told in Heb 9:13,14 that the blood of bulls and goats sanctified the flesh - how much more shall the blood of Christ who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God purge the conscience from dead works to serve the living God.  I don't believe it possible for a person born through natural generation to be born free from the iniquities of the fathers and Jesus was free from this since he was without spot.  I don't know what the difference would be between Jewish blood and His but I do believe His blood was different.   DM: It seems to me that you are looking at the atonement in a magical sense.  Aren't you kind of mixing physical and spiritual here?    It's not "magical" when it is God's Truth.  Magic is the counterfeit - Yes I am speaking of both physical and spiritual here but I don't believe we can understand God's Revelation any other way.   DM: First you say that the seed is spiritual, but then you insist that the blood Christ was different physically.   Scripture tells us that the life of the flesh is in the blood; God speaks of Abel's blood crying from the ground; families are identified by blood analysis.  I'm not a medical doctor or a scientist but I do believe there is more to it than we are able to understand right now.  How does Christ make all nations of "one blood"?    From my perspective, a DNA test on the blood of Christ would show him to be genetically related to Mary.  In fact, I suspect that he may very well have been 100% genetically related to Mary (received all his genes from her), but I don't really know this for sure.  Futhermore, if Jesus scratched his arm while doing his carpentry work, I believe his blood was red and would stain his clothing red instead of white, even though Rev. 7:14 speaks about saints making their robes white in his blood.   Noone is ever going to get the opportunity to test his pre Calvary DNA and the post resurrection body He has now is flesh and bones so all we can do today is speculate about it. Now sin is not something that physically exists in either blood or any other part of our flesh.    Sin is a being and Paul says it dwelt in his flesh in Romans 7 where he says he was in agreement with God's Law inwardly but at times he did what he didn't want to do and when that happened it was not him doing it but sin that dwelt in him. (Romans 7:17-25) and in the next chapter he explains that there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ and who walk after the Spirit because the law of the Spirit of life in Christ frees us from the law of sin and death.   We speak about sin being in the flesh, but with our modern understanding of genetics and biology, there really is no  reason for anyone to misunderstand why the Scriptures speak of it this way.  We speak of sin being in the flesh because behavior is regulated by genes and expressed by our physical brains.  All such behavior that originates solely in the brain (the flesh) is inherently selfish and therefore sinful.   I don't see the brain (organ) as sinful in and of itself. I guess this touches upon the Terri Schiavo saga. The brain is just another organ like the liver and pancreas and in her case it shut down. However, Terri herself is a spirit being who was inside that body but could not communicate because that organ was so damaged. Sir John Eccles (Nobel Laureate) said "the brain is a machine that any ghost can operate" On the other hand, that motivation for behavior that comes from the Spirit of God is contrary to this behavior of the flesh and it is one of love and is righteous.  Therefore, Jesus did not have to have some alien kind of blood in order to be the spotless lamb of God.  He was spotless because his behavior emanated from the Spirit and he did not follow the dictates  of his physical body.   I believe that he bled red just like us, but then so did Adam and Eve before the fall. They didn't have sin dwelling in their flesh before the fall and I don't believe Jesus did either.  However his body had the same physical needs as ours so he would have been tired, hungry, and looking for some relief while out in the wilderness so those temptations were real. When we begin to think about the Atonement as not being some magical hocus pocus act of splashing the physical blood of Christ in the right place and in the right manner and with the right words, we will begin to appreciate how it was not only allowable for the blood of Jesus to be normal human blood, but necessary.    I'm not talking any magical hocus pocus David; nor do I have any rituals having to do with the blood of Christ. My belief is that it cleanses the consicence from dead works when we go to the sacrifice in time of need.  Why are you so adamant about this, why does his blood have to be just like ours?  If that were so then God could have just had Joseph be his biological father after all he and Mary were both from Levitical lines.   The power of Christ comes to us in our realization that he was like us in every way.  He physically experienced exactly all the things we do, frailty and all.  When we see that he was one of us, and that his walk was a walk that each of us can do when we receive his Spirit, then the power of Christ comes upon us because our faith is solidified and established by this realization.  It is more the work of how our conscience and mind and heart is effected by Jesus Christ and his sacrificial life than any kind of magical powers inherent in his physical blood.    I don't have to have Him be "like me in every way" David" to believe that by His Spirit I can do whatever He requires of me and I don't understand why this appears to be so important to you.  Nor do I understand why you call my understanding "magical powers" at this point maybe you could explain.  Was the blood of A&E magical also?   Without identifying ourselves with Christ, I fear that some will just be following a religious ideology that has no power to set them free completely from the power of sin in the flesh.   We identify ourselves with Christ after the Spirit as a New Creation in Him when we are born again and this has nothing to do with His blood, or ours.  It's walking after the Spirit and denying the lust of the flesh.   Grace and Peace, judyt