TAKE THE GREEK WORD STUDY TEST BELOW
http://av1611.com/kjbp/faq/nuggets.html
Greek
words ''agape" and "phileo". Both of which are translated "love" in John
21:15-17.
15 ''So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of
Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou
knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest
thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord: thou knowest that l love thee. He
saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me?
Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me?
And he said unto him, Lord,thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love
thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep."
We have all heard this passage expounded by a pseudoscholar (sometimes in
complete sincerity due to acceptance of bad teaching). The presentation is
made that "agape" in Greek speaks of a deep, intimate, selfless love. "Phileo"
on the other hand is little more than a casual "friendly" type of love. Our
scholar then laments, almost tearfully, the constraints of the English
language. He points out that the Lord actually says, "Peter...lovest ("agape")
thou me (with a deep, intimate, selfless love) more than these?"
Peter responds, "Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love (phileo ) thee (with a
casual, friendly type of love).
Our Bible critic points out that the Lord, not receiving the answer that He
desires, asks again.
"Simon, son of Jonas, lovest ("agape") thou me?"
Peter, it is then pointed out, is unwilling to commit himself to such a
deep relationship so he responds again.
"Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love ("phileo") thee."
At this point our Bible corrector points out that a saddened Saviour gives
in to Peter's lack of commitment and changes His own choice of Greek words to
"phileo."
"Simon, son of Jonas, lovest ("phileo") thou me?"
This sudden change supposedly shocks Peter into seeing his own spiritual
infidelity to the Lord. Thus, saddened he answers.
"... thou knowest that I love ("phileo") thee."
Our false teacher then points out to his audience that there is no way to
attain such depth of meaning from this passage using only the feeble English.
Once more the trusty "Greek" has enlightened us as English can never do!
This presentation is tremendously effective and has only ONE flaw. The
definitions given for "agape" and "phileo" are TOTALLY UNTRUE!
I am about to make a statement concerning "agape" and "phileo" which is not
based on prejudice or opinion. It is based on careful honest study of the way
in which "agape" and "phileo" were used in the Bible ('Our final authority in
all matters of faith and practice) by Jesus Christ Himself and the New
Testament writers.
The statement is this: There was absolutely NO DIFFERENCE in New Testament
times between "agape" and "phileo" and that BOTH are used interchangeably by
Jesus Christ and the writers of the New Testament. REGARDLESS of what Greek
grammars, Greek teachers and Greek preachers may say!
If you have been steeped in the false teaching of "agape" and "phileo" by
your college professor or pastor, you will immediately (and with much
prejudice) reject my supposition. ("How could such godly men be wrong?''
Right?)
Yet, I will not attempt to prove it is true. The proof will come from Jesus
Christ, Paul, Peter and John, and any other New Testament writer that I could
have chosen for the comparison. But wait! They are not my final witnesses. The
final and most weighty argument will be waged by YOU!
For years I have been giving a test in Bible Conferences in which I speak
concerning this false teaching of "agape" and "phileo". A copy of this test is
reproduced below. IF you have the courage and IF you can be honest with God
and yourself, feel free to take it. Here's how it goes.
In part #I, I have reproduced quotes from the New Testament which were made
by Jesus Christ using "agape'' and "phileo". Without looking at a Greek New
Testament or Concordance or any other help, use the false rules for "agape"
and "philco" given by critics of the English Bible. Read the quote. Decide
whether Jesus is referring to "agape" love (deep, intimate, selfless love) or
"phileo'' love (casual, friendly love). Then put an "A" for agape or "P" for
phileo in the blank before the quote.
Part #II is identical to part #I except that the quotes are taken from
various New Testament writers. Do the same as in part one, putting an "A" for
agape and a "P" for phileo, using only the critics' definition of these words.
No guessing, no hunches. Use only their own rule.
JOHN 21:15-17 - AGAPE vs. PHILEO
INSTRUCTIONS:
1. Read the Bible quote.
2. Put an A or P in the blank before the quote to signify your choice of
the Greek word used, AGAPE or PHILEO.
DEFINITIONS:
AGAPE love: Deep, intimate, selfless love
PHILEO love: Casual "friendly" love.
I - Comparison: How Jesus used AGAPE and PHILEO.
1. Luke 11:42 the love of God
2. John 5:42 the love of God
3. Matt 10:37 He that loveth father or mother
4. Rev 3:9 to know that l have loved
5. Rev 3:19 As many as l love
6. Matt 23:6 love the uppermost. rooms
7. John 12:25 He that loveth his life
8. Luke 11:43 ye love the uppermost seats
9. John 5:20 the Father loveth the Son
10. John 16:27 the Father Himself loveth you, because ye have loved me
II - Comparison: How other New Testament writers used AGAPE and PHILEO.
l. II Tim. 3:4 of pleasures more than of God
2. John 11:5 Jesus loved Martha
3 John 20:2 the other disciple whom Jesus loved
4 I Cor. 16:22 If any man love not the Lord
5. Rom. 5:8 But God commendeth his love
6. I Cor. 16:24 My love be with you all
7. II Tim. 1:7 of power, and of love, and...
8. Rom. 12:10 one to another with brotherly love
9. II Thes. 3:12 abound in love one toward another\
10. Titus 2:4 women to be sober, to love their husbands
11. Eph. 5:28 So ought men to love their wives
12. I Peter 2:17 Love the brotherhood
13. Heb. 13:1 Let brotherly love continue
14. Titus 3:4 and love of God our Saviour
15. I John 2:5 in him verily is the love of God perfected
If you have taken the test and if you have been honest, you have found that
the TRUTH of the matter is that neither Jesus nor any of the New Testament
writers acknowledged the false rule foisted on us by heady and high-minded
Bible critics.
Thus we see that this little "nugget" is made only of "FOOL'S GOLD" and has
never really existed except in the deluded minds of men.
Whom will you believe? Jesus Christ or your Greek professor?
Here are the answers (A signifies "agape;" P signifies "phileo"):
JOHN 21:15-17 AGAPE vs PHILEO
I - Comparison: How Jesus used AGAPE and PHILEO.
A 1. Luke 11:42 the love of God
A 2. John 5:42 the love
of God
P 3. Matt 10:37 He that loveth father or mother
A
4. Rev 3:9 to know that rhave loved
P 5. Rev 3:19 As many as I love
P 6. Matt 23:6 love the uppermost rooms
P 7. John 12:25
He that loveth his life
A 8. Luke 11:43 ye love the uppermost seats
P 9. John 5:20 the Father loveth the Son
P 10. John
16:27 the Father Himself loveth you, because ye have loved me
II - Comparison: How other New Testament writers used AGAPE and PHILEO.
P 1. II Tim 3:4 of pleasures more than of God
A 2. John
11:5 Jesus loved Martha
P 3. John 20:2 the other disciples whom
Jesus loved
P 4. I Cor 16:22 If any man love not the Lord
A 5. Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love
A 6. I Cor
16:24 My love be with you all
A 7. II Tim 1:7 of power, and of
love, and. ..
P 8. Rom 12:10 one to another with brotherly love
A 9. II Thes 3:12 abound in love one toward another
P
10. Titus 2:4 women to be sober, to love their husbands
A 11. Eph
5:28 So ought men to love their wives
A 12. I Peter 2:17 Love the
brotherhood
P 13. Heb 13:1 Let brotherly love continue
P
14. Titus 3:4 and love of God our Saviour
A 15. I John 2:5 in him
verily is the love of God perfected
Judy Taylor
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I use them to communicate with people who do
not accept God's Word as is, without these extra trappings.
He doesn't forbid it but if we follow His own
example we would not need to. He quoted the Old Covenant
scriptures all the time without qualifying
anything, even using God's Word as a two edged sword to defeat
Satan in the wilderness. Imagine
that!!! jt
Judy writes > He
doesn't expect this from us and this is why He has made His Word
available to us in our generation in the English language.
If you truly believe this, Judy, then
why just this morning were you nuancing the differences between the Greek
words "philos" and "agape"? Our English Bibles translate both as "love":
Why if God "has made his Word available to us in our
generation in the English language," and this --, along with the
Holy Spirit -- is all we need to gain understanding, did you
present us with a "word study" on the meaning of Greek words? Oh, and
weren't you also the one who earlier today wrote to John, saying: "I don't see Jesus leaving any admonition about ... Word
Studies in order to understand the meaning of
His Word"? It looks to me like you are operating under a double
standard. You think it's okay when you nuance the meaning of words, but
when others do it, they are using "qualifiers as an excuse to make the Word of God say
what [they] want it to ... '"
Seems hypocritical to me, Judy. Will you
please explain to us why it is not?
Bill
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 1:03
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth
Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and the pigpen
Maybe, then, Judy, we needn't even bother
to read the Bible in our own language. We could "read" it in Inuktitut
and the Holy Spirit could just siphon the
content into our brains without ANY of the normal means
of linguistic processing.
Debbie, please tell me you are being
silly rather than serious here...
The point being (as laid
out in an earlier post) that making use of
context is something we all do every day in
understanding
anything we hear or
read. But in this case, we are so far away from the context
(Jesus' hearers weren't) that we have to make
a conscious effort to go after it. Of
course it will STILL be necessary for the Holy Spirit to
enlighten and enliven us, as it was
for Jesus' hearers back then; but why would
he expect us to deliberately short-circuit the normal process of
understanding
language? Debbie
He doesn't expect this from us and
this is why He has made His Word available to us in our generation
in the English language. However, an English speaking person can read an English Bible and a
Greek speaking person can read a Greek Bible with both knowing all about
Israel's history and local customs and yet it
will still be a closed
book without the ministry of the Holy Spirit which is not so
with what we read and
what we hear every day on TV and in the newspaper.
It's something to think
about...
Judyt
Do you use
biblcial, historical and
cultural context to help understand the meaning of words?
Or do you see that as a devise of the uninspired?
JD
I don't see Jesus leaving any
admonition about history, culture, and Word Studies in order
to understand the meaning
of His Word. He sent the Holy Spirit
to give us understanding. I don't know what Kevin's response
will be but I see the above qualifiers as
an excuse to make the Word of God say what you want it to and
conform it to strange and
different doctrines rather than receive the "faith once
delivered to the saints". jt
In a message dated 4/14/2005
4:36:24 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
Does the
"context" of your writings demand that we REDFINE your words
also?
