Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and th...

Mon, 18 Apr 2005 05:08:52 -0700

There were true & false documents circulating while Paul was writing.

2 Thes 2 hat ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means

2 Co 2 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things....Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices....For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

WHICH BOOKS - WHICH PARCHMENTS WERE THESE? 2 Tim 4:13 The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments.

WHAT SCRIPTURES WHERE THESE? Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Did he have the ORIGINALS? And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth (this was VERY Early Church period, this would seem to break your argument)

As a CHILD Timothy had the Originals? 2 Tim 3:15-16 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness (this would seem to break your argument)

What scripture was this?

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Romans 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

ABRAHAM had Scriptures????????

Pagan Pharaoh had scriptures???????

Is the above BIBLIOLATRY?



Caroline Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I believe the church had the Pauline letters early. I believe the gospels were written after the Pauline letters. I am aware of the various theories of authors and dates etc. but have chosen not to reclassify the letters. I believe the church expanded ahead of the bible. I believe a lot of the early believers were illiterate and pictures/icons were used to illustrate the stories. Some of these still exist in the Roman catacombs.
 
I thought you subscribed to a very late date for the gospels when you wrote
"When were Matt Mark Luke & John circulated??????
200AD LOL"
 
Obviously you belong to the group who believe John was written by John before 100AD. So mea culpa. But do you agree that the church expands ahead of the bible? That many new believers today don't have the whole bible and those who do may misunderstand what they read? Would you say they are not really saved?
 
Love,
 
Caroline
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and th...

So the church in Thesolonica did not have a copy of 1 &2 Thes's in 55AD?

Caroline Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
just responding to your statement that the gospels were widely circulated in 200 AD
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and th...

So you are claiming that the epistles and the gospels were not circulated until 150AD?
Did the Apostles write them after they were dead?

Caroline Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
150 years is a long time.
 
It was only a matter of months after Paul left Galatia that the Christians there agreed to follow Mosaic Law and get circumcised. It didn't take that much longer before the church in Corinth decided that Paul was no apostle and therefore had no authority over them. 1 Corinthians is a masterpiece of apologetics and passion from a father to wayward children to come to their senses. In today's parlance, we would call it a rant.
 
150 years is a very long time.
 
Love,
 
Caroline
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and th...

When did Paul write?
Romans
Corinthians
etc.
 
When were Matt Mark Luke & John circulated??????
200AD LOL
 
AN even more interesting question is What did they use in Moses time & before???????????

Caroline Wong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Men first began to call upon the name of YHWH in the second generation. (Gen. 4) There was nothing written, just the memory of Adam and Eve and their experiences.
 
At the end of Malachi, this is what the chosen people of YHWH knew:
1) there is only ONE God
2) they are His people
3) the Law governs their lives - He gave it them and it is wonderful
4) Canaan is their promised land
5) if they are good they are blessed, if they are bad they are punished
6) Satan works for God
7) the Messiah is coming to re-establish David's kingdom
 
In the intertestamental period, a couple of things happened
1) new theology of the afterlife, angels and holiness as seen in the Pharisees and Essenes
2) Herodians who had given up on it all
3) Messianic fervor as the temple has been rebuilt
 
After Jesus Christ ascended and within one generation, all that they were taught in the OT will change. They didn't have the New Testament. They were living and working it out. Paul said they didn't need anyone to teach them, they had the spirit of Christ within them. But misunderstanding and bad thinking dogged Paul's ministry. He wrote his letters to rebuke people or correct bad theology or answer basic questions of life. Error in theology will continue to dog Christianity for 2000 years. Having the bible is no guarantee of 100% Truth. Nor is having the bible AND the Holy Spirit. All the great theologians have errors in their theology. Some like John Stott change major ones as they mature in the faith. He no longer believes the suffering in hell is eternal.
 
One Triune God, one compilation of 66 books, thousands of years, thousands of people, several languages and cultures. The one who feels she has understood it all and has 100% Truth is either naive, ignorant, proud or too scared to admit uncertainty. I'm not asking people to throw in their faith. I'm just asking for a little humility. Bereans instead of Thessalonians.
 
God chose to speak in parables and narratives. Funny isn't it there are two groups here who believe the other group does not know their bible and/or refusing to allow their thinking to be corrected by the bible. It's been that way since the day Moses picked up quill and parchment. It shall be with us till the end.
 
Choose you this day which God you will follow.
 
Love,
 
Caroline
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2005 11:12 PM
Subject: RE: [Bulk] Re: [TruthTalk] Re [Truth Talk] Saved -- Salvation -- and th...


He is the Word.   You don't mean to say "His Word."  You actually mean to say "The Bible" which was not even in existence in the first century.  How is it that the Gentile Church survived for all those years before the Church decided on the contents of the Bible? 
Jd

 

That is possibly the most ridiculous statement you have made to date, JD.  What do you call the Old Testament??? Good grief.  Izzy

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